pjrails Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hi Folks Can any help me discover if it is now legisilation that safety chains should be replaced with SWR strops, if so can you point me to the documentation of the legisilation this http://www.lancelynoxford.co.uk/images/products/4265_1.jpg or thishttp://image.tradevv.com/2012/01/04/stagelightings_2259445_600/plastic-coated-steel-wire-safety-rope-lighting-hook.jpgANy help would be appreciated PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJones Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 We have talked about this before. I think the conclusion at the time was that all safety chains need to have an SWL: which generally safety's made out of chain don't have. So It was said that if you have chain safety's, whilst it is OK to keep using them, when you come to buy any new, then the wire rope safety's with a SWL stamped on is the preferred option. HTH AndyJones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjrails Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 We have talked about this before. I think the conclusion at the time was that all safety chains need to have an SWL: which generally safety's made out of chain don't have. So It was said that if you have chain safety's, whilst it is OK to keep using them, when you come to buy any new, then the wire rope safety's with a SWL stamped on is the preferred option. HTH AndyJones Hi AndyThanks for you reply, I had a feeling but wanted to find out as a teacher here at my college who went on a lighting course was told by the instructor, "it is law to have strops and not have chains", but I can find no legisilation on it and even my friends at Hawthorns can find nothing.Going to change my 60 lanterns anyway. CheersPJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJones Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 From a practical note, I prefer the steel wire safety's, because you can put the loop on the end through the yoke,so that they are captive, and can't go missing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 a teacher here at my college who went on a lighting course was told by the instructor, "it is law to have strops and not have chains"One has to wonder what else the instructor said that was of a questionable nature...Sounds like that must be part of the same law that says all electrical equipment has to be PATed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomM Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Whilst there is no law insisting on SWRs, it could be argued that most chains used as safety chains do fall foul of LOLER - which is statutory and requires all lifting accessories to have a SWL stamped on them - though only if we decide the secondary suspension is a lifting accessory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 ...it could be argued that most chains used as safety chains do fall foul of LOLER...No it couldn't. There is no element of lifting involved as there is no raising or lowering of the load. ...requires all lifting accessories to have a SWL stamped on them...Not exactly. Colour coding is permitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I've been using some lanterns (not our own) with the old-style chains on them, and whilst I'm not making any comment on which is more suitable for general use, one thing that I did realise is that they are a lot easier to shorten - you don't have to attach at the end of the chain as you do with a wire rope safety - so they could be more effective in some circumstances, as the load can be prevented from falling further onto the safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Whilst there is no law insisting on SWRs, it could be argued that most chains used as safety chains do fall foul of LOLER - which is statutory and requires all lifting accessories to have a SWL stamped on them - though only if we decide the secondary suspension is a lifting accessory... There is no statutory requirement that says all lifting accessories need to have their SWL stamped on them. There is a statutory requirement that says the SWL must be easily available to the user. This could be through stamping it on, through using a sticker, through a label that is fixed or sewn on, or on paper separate from the item itself (IE stuck to the front of a stillage or flight case). People just tend to do the stamping thing because it's an easy way to make sure the SWL is easily known by the user. But SWR rope will often not have anything attached to it, and simply be kept in a stillage or flight case with the SWL stuck to that. Contrary to both Andy and Tom M's points, Chains are completely safe to use providing you know their SWL and their working limitations. Chain is still a regular feature in lighting and rigging scenarios as unlike SWR it is easily adjustable in length, either by clipping through the links (as mentioned by Tom H) or using a clutch or shortening hook. Chain is also of course used in motors. Neither chain nor SWR is any safer than the other without knowing the limitations of the individual product. The danger is not caused by people using either in isolation, it is that people tend to pick any old bit of 4mm wire rope and wrap it round something and call it 'safe' when often it is anything but. You can use SWR, you can use chain, just ensure that the safety you attach to your fixtures is suitable for it's purpose and has a SWL suitable for it's application. Further remember that whilst the SWL can increase by doubling it up, choking it can reduce the SWL, so also be certain about the way in which you apply the safety, not just the material that you use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenalien Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Tom makes a valuable point - it's important to have all safetys - chain or wire - as short as possible, especially if the fixture is a heavy one like a moving head - as it's important that the fixture isn't given the space to accelerate downwards if the primary attachment fails. The snatch load increases significantly with distance, and may be a lot more than the rated static load of the safety device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjrails Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 HI Everyone who replied to my question It does seem to stir up a bit of a hornets nest very much like that of the 'T'Scope' safety issues. I thank you for the advise and in reply to Shez I think you maybe right about an instructor giving this information to teachers so they return to their schools saying that all this work need to be done "because it is Law as my instructor says so, he's in the business" What business I wonder, theatre sales?? Also we who do not spend as much time as we would like with the rest of you in the main stream theatre sometimes then find it hard, as I have done, to check if it is law or not, schools have limited budgets when it comes to Performing Arts and Music and it is good to know if this sort of instruction/legisilation has to be carried out before spending valuable funds. CheersPJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 HI Everyone who replied to my question It does seem to stir up a bit of a hornets nest very much like that of the 'T'Scope' safety issues. I thank you for the advise and in reply to Shez I think you maybe right about an instructor giving this information to teachers so they return to their schools saying that all this work need to be done "because it is Law as my instructor says so, he's in the business" What business I wonder, theatre sales?? Also we who do not spend as much time as we would like with the rest of you in the main stream theatre sometimes then find it hard, as I have done, to check if it is law or not, schools have limited budgets when it comes to Performing Arts and Music and it is good to know if this sort of instruction/legisilation has to be carried out before spending valuable funds. CheersPJ Just a quick post from me - in future I would just ring your supplier. If there is one company you use for your kit, just call them up and ask. Most suppliers are honest decent people, they won't tell you lies to make you buy small things because if you clock on they might lose a sale on a big thing. Yes they have interest in selling you stuff but most like to be helpful too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjrails Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Just a quick post from me - in future I would just ring your supplier. If there is one company you use for your kit, just call them up and ask. Most suppliers are honest decent people, they won't tell you lies to make you buy small things because if you clock on they might lose a sale on a big thing. Yes they have interest in selling you stuff but most like to be helpful too. HiThe problem has been that nobody could tell us if it was legisilation or not including 3 or 4 different supply companys I contactedPJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Chains are completely safe to use providing you know their SWL and their working limitations. The most obvious "working limitation" of a long-link chain (eg: a chain that it's possible to 'clip in' to anywhere along its length) is that it's not considered good practice to use it to sling something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDLX Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 At work we are trying to gradually move over to steel wire on everything, but at the moment we are keeping chain safteys on lightweight items only, such as parcans and pinspots as replacing all these with steels at once would be quite costly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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