Refurbishment Time

[Jimbo The Wiz]

Right, I know similar topics have been covered before and that it may seem a bit overdone but I could do with a bit of help.

 

I need a bit of help with a nearly full kit out for a local hall that is being refurbished and the lighting system is hopefully getting upgraded. I have been told there would be around £1,500 to £2,000 so I’m thinking mostly second hand.

 

Details. There are already some lights in there that will do the job (old strand fresnels and a 4 Coda bar) but they are wired very strange. The Coda’s go to a strand 4 way dimmer and the Fresnels go to 4 household dimmers (not sure if that is safe!) Then there is some overstate lights that are pathetic. Just some 50WAT household bulbs. I am thinking firstly of getting two dimmer packs (6x2 way packs) to power the lights that are there and then a lighting desk. Really I would like to get a desk that could handle at a minimum 4 intelligent scans (this could be really pushing the budget). Finally simple but necessary jobs like fitting 15AMP plugs, that sort of thing.

 

While on the subject does anyone know of some cheap scans that are fairly good lights for disco/music lighting and make a good second hand choice?

 

Anyway I will leave it with you and any help would be very greatly received. :blink:

[Dweeks]

Ok, well for the intelligent stuff, can't go wrong with some ACME Winners/Chauvet Intimidators - bright, relatively ok range of colours (fine for band lighting/discos) and DMX controlled obviously.

 

You might be best off speaking to someone like AC Lighting, they did a local school near mine, I was kinda go-between with them. They were excellent, did all the wiring etc, came up with plans etc, no power problems.

Tell them your ideas, see what they come up with.

 

Personally, depends on your budget, but I'd guess you're looking at 2 x 6 channel Betapacks, running DMX obviously, maybe one of the cheaper Zero 88 boards?

 

I would suggest going with a company like AC rather than buying bits and bobs (dimmers from terralec etc). You'll have a system that works well, and someone to call when you need help!

[Brian]

I have been told there would be around £1,500 to £2,000

 

speaking to someone like AC Lighting, they did a local school near mine, I was kinda go-between with them. They were excellent, did all the wiring etc, came up with plans etc, no power problems.

Tell them your ideas, see what they come up with.

 

And when they stop laughing...seriously though, with the budget you have it's not going to get you much.

 

My recommendation would be to spend the money on anything but lanterns. Lanterns are cheap to hire when you need them. What you can't easily hire is a good mains supply in a sensible location and safe, correctly rated, hanging point in sensible locations, ideally wired back to a dozen channels of installed dimmers.

 

By the time you've done that you won't have anything left over.

[Dweeks]

No, to be fair, they were very good. Gave some good plans, even tho it was only a £2k+ job, so that we could convince the school.

 

They were excellent in fact, giving us several different systems with pro's and cons.

[Just Some Bloke]

As you'll see from other topics around the site, it's very difficult for us to say what equipment a venue should have without knowing what sort of shows they put on, how big the stage is, what height the lanterns would be etc.

 

Is it a small village hall or a big school hall? Do you do nearly all plays or all bands or a mixture?

 

In general you'll find most of us would recommend buying with a view to the future. There's no point in buying a complete system now then finding you have a little more money next year and no-where to plug in or control new kit. Lighting boards are very expensive and you don't have a big budget, I'm afraid (even though it might sound a lot!). You could, for instance, buy a dimmer rack with it's own control faders built in, but which will also run off DMX should you have the money to upgrade later.

 

Another important fact to check is the amount of power available to you. If it's all got to come from one circuit off the fuse board/trip box, how much power can that circuit provide and does that appear as 13A sockets only or is there something bigger? It may be advisable to get an electrician in to install a 32A socket to plug your dimmer rack into. If there's a qualified electrician living in the village or father of someone at the school they may do it just for the cost of the socket.

 

Think of what you need, leave space for later additions then post here what your thoughts are and we'll all be happy to pass comment. We may not agree, but at least we'll give you a selction of opinions!

 

HTH.

[Jimbo The Wiz]

Cheers for all the input so far, keep it coming.

 

As regards to Brian. I know the budget is very limiting and I put the things in the first message in order of importance. Sorry I should have said that then.

 

Firstly

To clarify, firstly I want to get the dimmers for the stage. They can be second hand and ac-lighting have some ex demo beta pack 2's for a fairly good price. Also I know I will need to get the power requirements sorted (thanks to "Just Some Bloke" for the 32AMP reminder.)

 

Secondly

There are only front of house bars so one upstage bar and a couple of boom (probably the booms will be home made apart from the bases). Then also running power to them instead of having the lights hardwired in as they are at present.

While thinking about this can people tell me how or who I need to take to about getting another bar or two installed?

 

Thirdly

It would probably be the disco lights or music lighting (par cans etc..). I know this sounds stupid but the hall is used mainly for kids parties and music events with occasional plays being held.

 

I did understand that I would not be able to get everything but just wrote it all down to see what people thought. The desk, I do agree is a luxury and would for the time being be better to be hired in with the view to buying at a later date along with some more lanterns.

 

The Venue

 

It is a fairly large hall capable of holding about 250 to 300 people. The stage is not huge but the roof height is fairly good. The only problem with the stage is that it is not very deep.

[Just Some Bloke]

It looks like you've got good ideas. Dimmers as first choice are a good thing, extra hanging positions as second choice is also good and disco lights or Pars as third choice isn't such a bad idea. Don't forget that scanners or moving head profiles probably won't be much use for the "occasional plays" but Pars could probably find a use with everyone - I'd recommend wide 500w lamps in the Pars, for spread and power reasons. Also, re-use everything you can (as long as it's safe)!

 

As to installing extra bars, there's 2 ways of doing this.

 

First, and best, option is to use internally wired bars (IWBs) which then run off to the dimmers through multicore cables. These have the 15A sockets built into them and the cables run through the middle of the bar and so aren't seen. Second option is to use ordinary 48mm bars bought cheaply and suspended safely, with socapex or lectriflex run in to them from the dimmers. Neither way is cheap, but option 2 is cheaper. If you can afford it, though, go for IWBs (even if you can only afford 1 now and hope for more money later). Talk to your local lighting suppliers to find out who'd be best for the installation and get quotes from more than 1 company.

 

Have fun!

[Guest Mattladkin]

Talk to Jedi Lighting and SOund (01787 475999) and Viking Stage Lighting (01603 401982) to get a qoute but both are Anglia region however usually beat Stage ELectrics, Gradav and WhitLights prices - dont quote me on that though!!!

 

Acme Lighting is great for cheap disco use - have 4 Spot Knights myself!!! Might be an idea to go down the route of moving heads rather than scans as they are better in some ways!!!

[TomLyall]

Acme Lighting is great for cheap disco use - have 4 Spot Knights myself!!! Might be an idea to go down the route of moving heads rather than scans as they are better in some ways!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Although are they not usually slower, heavier, harder to rig, and more expensive to both purchase and maintain?

[gareth]

Talk to Viking Stage Lighting (01603 401982)

 

Wouldn't recommend Viking Stage Lighting on principle. I had a job down in that part of the world a few months ago - I dropped them a line to get a quote for some LED kit that I needed, and they didn't even have the common courtesy to reply. A pretty poor way to run a business, if you ask me.

[paulears]

Talk to Viking Stage Lighting (01603 401982)

 

Wouldn't recommend Viking Stage Lighting on principle. I had a job down in that part of the world a few months ago - I dropped them a line to get a quote for some LED kit that I needed, and they didn't even have the common courtesy to reply. A pretty poor way to run a business, if you ask me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think that's probably just a ####-up - I have to say they've always been amazingly helpful - if they have a snag it's that they moved premises and this may have been the problem. Price wise, I've found them very favourable.

[Guest Mattladkin]

THe Acme SpotKnights are in fact faster than most moving mirrors (put them against Martin 812, 218, 518 and Clay Paky Mini and Stage Scans). THey are as light as a Martin 812, very small (only need 1 standard hook clamp to rig) and more importantly have a good selection of gobos and colours.

 

Only donfall is that the wheels are not interchangable - easy way to get round that - the wheels are the same size as ?518 and so can be interchangable!!!

 

As for viking - doing 5th show hire with them and they ae great people to work with. Good knowledge and have halped me alot with getting the right kit for the right price!!!

[Jimbo The Wiz]

Yep been looking at the acme moving heads. both the knight spot and the emporer spots.

 

the budget seems to have grown after speaking to some people to about 4 to 5 thousand. more money to play with. and as for dimmers I may be able to get some good second hand ones from a few people I know for a good price.

 

this has lead me to thinking about getting a few more bars on stage and another in the hall and 4 more advanced moving fixtures so I do not have to upgrade in the future. still not sure about the desk though.

 

thanks for the contacts and I will get in contact with them as soon as possible.

 

Cheers

[mac500]

If its just kids parties etc in the hall possibly some more disco effects from marin or abstarct for that and some cheep parcans etc for the more theatrical events.

 

I would avoid going down the intelligent route for now because the do need maitenance etc extra time for plotting etc etc etc.