Suspending/Flying Mics

[DSA]

Hi,

 

School has just got confirmation that it can 'finish off' its recording studio.

 

I have suggested that we invest in some kit to 'fly' a stereo pair across the front of the stage to pick up the orchestra etc for music concerts.

 

Ive seen BBC recordings (eg. Radio 3) do it eg at Chelt. Town Hall, and wondered what they use.

 

Theyre are points to attach at both sides of stage to use, just need the ?wire and attachment for mics.

 

Someone told me it was called a sling, but I dont know if this is true....

 

Where can I get one of these, and how much will it cost.

 

I plan to use Beyer Opus 83s for the stereo pair. Would these be OK.

 

Alternatively I could use the AKG C414s which we have got - but I dont want to run the risk of them dropping!!!

 

Thanks,

David

[Andrew C]

Theyre are points to attach at both sides of stage to use, just need the ?wire and attachment for mics.

 

Someone told me it was called a sling, but I dont know if this is true....

 

Where can I get one of these, and how much will it cost.

 

I plan to use Beyer Opus 83s for the stereo pair.  Would these be OK.

 

Alternatively I could use the AKG C414s which we have got - but I dont want to run the risk of them dropping!!!

 

Thanks,

David

Now, let's just think for a minute. If there is a risk of them dropping and damaging the mic, might they not also damage your performers or audience?

 

Would the Beyers hurt less if they hit you on the head?

 

Don't get me wrong, it can be done. Just use the right kit. Which I would have expected to find in Canford Audio's catalogue, but I can't see it at the moment.

[DSA]

Well yes obviously the Opus 83s would hurt less, but if theyre fixed properly with the right kit then there should be 'no' risk in this department.

 

I just wondered what the kit was and how much it would cost thats all - its just that when I have seen the BBC doing lives/records they always suspend a pair by 'wire' across centre, to get mics close enough without obstructing view - which is what I want to achieve as the hall is v. similar to what they were using.

 

Naturally some closer mics are also reqd. for orchestra.

 

David

[Andrew C]

Sorry, that was irony.

 

If your suspension will stop the mic being damaged, then it will protect the punters.

 

Don't preclude the AKGs on the risk that they might be damaged by a fall if the fall can't happen.

 

Sorry I can't help with the choice though.

 

BTW The 414s are only 140g heavier.

 

Edit

 

AKG 414 states that this would, indeed, be the prefered choice!

[DSA]

Great,

 

but I still need help with the fixing.

 

Any ideas - there must be someone out there whos done this before - if not that works for the BBC!!!

 

David

[dominicgross]

not to sure about the opus but I might be able to help with the 414's.

 

Ours came (and can be purchased) with locking shock mounts (egg cups), simply get your maintainens guys in to produce a fitting on the wall which the mount will fit onto...

 

easy.

 

The mounts are fairly safe, we often suspend our 414's upside down in the cups, no probs yet.

[TeeJay]

The usual system that I have seen is a standard mic clip attached to a standard G-Clamp.

 

Not near any examples right now to be able to tell you the size of bolts used but it should be fairly obvious once you have the bits in front of you.

 

HTH

[Brian]

A piece of perspex, two standard mic clips, a couple of M6 screws and nuts/washers, two wire rope grips is what you need to make a holder. Screw the mic clips to a bit of perspex about 3 inches by 6 inches. Use the wire rope clamps to fix the perspex onto your wire rope which runs side-to-side across your hall.

[DSA]

OK, these are good 'Blue Peter' solutions, however is there no rigging device designed for this purpose - surely there is!

 

I found a referance on a website confirming my friends help that it is setting up the mics in a 'sling arrangement', however I cant find a place to buy one.

 

David

[Brian]

I thought Canford would do something but I've just been through their catalogue and can only find the Beyer clamp that allows you to hang a mic by it's own cable. The problem with that is that the mic can then point anywhere.

 

I guess that the problem is that there are so many different ways of suspending a mic it would be difficult to have a universal mount.

[salty]

Hi I do lots of Orchestral and Choral recordings using flown mics. I always use the mic cable to fly microphones, the cable used is good quality stuff with rope inside the screen layer.

The cable is taped to the stereo bar, or the mic clip in the case of single mics, with electrical tape.

 

So no strain is put onto the XLR's latch if the tape gives, the cable is threaded through, or tied round the mic clip as an extra safety measure. This gives three points of anchorage - the tape, the clip, and finally the XLR plug's latch.

 

I was taught to fly mics using their XLR cables by an ex BBC outside broadcast engineer, and I believe this is still their standard practice, as I work with a current BBC OB engineer occasionally and he doesn't bat an eyelid when I use this technique.

 

Just last week I flew a stereo bar with two 414s and two 451s on a 4' alloy stereo bar using this technique.

 

I would not contemplate this as a permanent fixture solution, it would definitely be useful to you on a rig/derig basis though.

 

From what you have said I think the only peice of equipment you need assuming you don't want to hang the mics permanently is a stereo bar. Might I suggest you get some steel or aluminium and make one to your requirements?

 

A simple bar for the 414s needs to be about 2-3" long with a hole each end and a 1" long 5/8" thread bolt through each hole with a nut holding it in place, plus a locking nut to help you angle the mic clip.

 

A more adventurous setup would be to make a wide stereo bar with some angle-aluminium, with the 2 holes as above in the centre, and one out on each end for your opus mics.

 

cheers,

 

Salty

[Ike]

The method I have seen used the most is simply hanging the mic by the cable and using fishing line etc to angle them towards the stage.

 

Although I don't usually involve myself with sound I have seen this done quite a few times in semi-permanent and permanent situations and never known a failure of any kind.

[DSA]

thanks 'salty',

 

so I need to make one myself - and for the flying just use the cables?

 

I would be tempted myself to please H and S, to add some wire rope as the main hanging method.

 

Do I need the shockmounts with the 414s? or just normal clip?

 

Would the opus's (maybe thats 'opi'!!)add much? or should I use those more effectively elsewhere - mainly orchestral and choirs being recorded (like you).

 

Will it be expensive???

 

Thanks,

David

 

Oh and what mic clips do I use? - and how do I make sure that they point in the right direction - is it hust trial and error? - won't their weight make them fall downwards?

[dominicgross]

I would use the shock mounts: they actually lock in the mikes and so they can be angled however you need:

 

Use fishing wire or wire rope to angle them as necessary.

 

I did a very simular thing last week: I had to suspend our 414's above a drum kit for a gig (we had run out of stands) - works a treet and cuts down on vibration.

[salty]

> so I need to make one myself - and for the flying just use the

> cables?

 

Assuming you have decent lengths of quality cable with rope inners, yes. Regarding making a stero bar, I just did a search on Canford's website, and they are selling some for £5 +vat.

 

> I would be tempted myself to please H and S, to add some wire

>rope as the main hanging method.

 

I have hung mics above City Mayors' heads using this method ;), and filled in Risk Assesments and Method Statements for Councils and Churches and the like outlining the use of XLR cable to hang the mics, it is fine.

 

> Do I need the shockmounts with the 414s? or just normal clip?

 

Just the normal clip, shockmounts are intended to stop vibrations from knocking a mic stand or floor vibrations travelling to the mic. You would gain nothing and complicate the setup by using shockmounts in my opinion. What clip do you have for the mics? I have a clip with a part number of SA18/3 B, with a tightening clamp fitted. You do need the clip with the tightening clamp to take the weight of a 414, or use a jubilee clip to secure the mic to a sa40 type mic clip. the sa40 clip has a hole you can thread the XLR plug through too.

 

> Would the opus's (maybe thats 'opi'!!)add much? or should I use

> those more effectively elsewhere - mainly orchestral and choirs

> being recorded (like you).

 

It depends if you have a lot of good mics or not, the spaced pair is less important than spot micing a soloist in my opinion.

 

> Will it be expensive???

 

Not really, a 100m drum of good cable - £ 60ish, 4 XLRs - £12, a stereo bar £5-20, 2 jubilee clips £5 & 2 sa40s £30 or copies £15.

 

If you want the proper 414 clips they are over £100 from canford each though!

 

> Oh and what mic clips do I use? - and how do I make sure that they

> point in the right direction - is it hust trial and error? - won't their

> weight make them fall downwards?

 

If you use a stereo and spaced pair, you have 2 cables to fly out left to right, and 2 cables to fly back to angle the microphones. If you only go for the stereo pair, then fishing line would be a great help with getting the front to back angle right as dominicgross suggested. The mics should be angled in such a way that they naturally hang from your taping point in the direction you want them - it takes a little trial and error, but it's not rocket science.

 

cheers,

 

salty