trannyvan Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Okay here is the deal....we are a live 16-piece soul band with our own soundman and lights man that play in NE Scotland for the love of the music on a part time basis.Venues range from 200 person pubs to 1000 person exhibition centres. The entire stage sound is either micced or DI'd thru the main PA. This consists of 2 each Nexo AlphE fullrange bi-amped boxes per side run by Crown amps using the Nexo digital controller and a A&H 3300 FOH desk. Stage has foldback in most positions.The sound is awesome and there is more than enough headroom for all the venues we play. So where is the problem...........the Nexo speaker boxes are huge, weight around 100kg each so we have installed each box into a solid angle iron frame with 12" pneumatic castors in order to get them in and out of venues and into the 7.5ton truck.The speaker frame is therefore wheeled into the venue and placed in pairs either side of the stage at floor level.This places the speaker about 300mm off the floor where the tops are about 1500mm off the floor at punter head height. ( Speakers are 1200mm high boxes )Most venues the punters can touch the speakers so we are mindful of volume. We have therefore created a situation where the logistics is easy but have to balance the volume between what is comfortable for punters in the nearfield and on the dancefloor but which then compromises the farfield. ie Those at the back generally tell us to crank it up !! Our gut feeling is that we need to get these speaker boxes up higher at least wher the mid/high is above punter head height. We can not fly the stuff cos most venues do not have such facilities. and portable flying frames are out...........we do this for fun. We have invested in this PA for the quality and do not want to change.Thought about getting rid of speaker frames, using wheel boards ( dolleys ) and placing speakers on portable staging some 1m high. Sorry about the blag but check out details on www.souledasylum.co.uk All help and comments gratefully recieved. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Whilst getting the speakers higher is a good approach you can then be limited with vertical dispersion in the near field. they'd have to be angled down if you went too high. and you may still have the problems. (although I doubt you'd need them high enough to worry about that.) I'm not overly sure as to your setup. I can picture something in my head but I could have it completely wrong. (its my brain not your description). I would say that you would be better off with the cabs on a solid surface. a stage would be ideal but I know as much as you that this sometimes isn't possible.. sometimes there isn't even a stage there.A raised stage block etc would be a good choice. You would have to experiment with a few different types of platform as they can alter the sound significantly (particularly the lower frequencies). You'd probably have to take packing space into consideration as well. I'm sure others in here will have some more direct suggestions. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Lawrance Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Hi I'm not familier with the cabs you are using, but I have the same problem with my cabs. I've got a pair of SX300's. (I admit they are smaller) I bought a pair of windup stands (manfrotto) and used an old "T" bar to fly them from. It does work quite well. You can then vary the height. Not sure if it's an option for you, but it may be worth a try if the cabs aren't to big and heavey. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hinds Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 I regularly use the AlphaE boxes. I would be tempted to forgo your current solution and go for wheelboards and use staging to raise the speakers up. The system you have chosen has nothing to do with your problem. Your issue is getting coverage of the crowd and you won't get coverage without having a clear line from speaker to ear for more listeners. I would start with 0.75m legs on the desking putting the centre of the horn just above head height. Should keep the nearfield listeners in the pattern and the far field listeners. Good luck and mind your backs while lifting. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back_ache Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I've had a look though your website and all the nice equipment info and piccies and must say I agree with the others that have replyed, you must get a least the mid/top part of your sound speakers up, up, up above head height. ;) From the pictures it looks like your speakers are all-in-one big boxes that sit on the dance floor, how about instead using a sat/sub combination with lighter weight (back friendly) mid-tops on stands above head height tilted down slightly at the audinence( the cabs tiliting not the stands!), you can leave the big-heavy subs on the floor, I personally like EV for stuff like this. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Agree completely with Chris Hinds, get the speakers up off the ground. 2 pieces of 4'x4' steeldeck.8x 1m scaffold legs. Couple of bits of dressing. Not only will your coverage improve, you now have somewhere handy to hide amp racks either side of stage! If you can work out a way of sensibly lifting the boxes up even higher, all you require is some scaff tube, an angle grinder et voila... longer legs.Don't go crazy with the leg height, otherwise the decking will get a bit wobbly and need crossbracing. All the best,Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I've looked at your site, and concur with the suggestions made to use some kind of staging to get cabinet heght up. The frame idea is crew friendly, but doesn't offer you the versatility you require. To my mind, the steeldeck option looks most useful - many venues will have features already that mean the steeldeck can be left on the truck. The other thing I oted from the photos is that you don't with your existing set up, have any way to angle the inner cabs inwards - I'd guess those centre near the stage also don't hear that well. With a few 'speaker angle adjusters' I.e bits of black gaffer covered timber, you can then direct your sound to where it is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 With a few 'speaker angle adjusters' I.e bits of black gaffer covered timber,Otherwise known as accoustic compensators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanJ Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hi all, I'm soundman for said band (souledasylum)...... The inner cabs are separate from the outer cabs. We ususally turn them inwards to help coverage on the dancefloor.......although some scallywag usually follows me and turns them back again......."hey!, who turned them in...looks crap like that"...... B-) PS. pls keep the replies coming......great info so far! Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_Rock Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 For the small venues I don't think that you need to worry about a sub woofer having two of those beasts per side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trannyvan Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 All, Many thanks for the valued comments and input and having now discussed this we concur that whilst having the Nexo AlphaE speaker boxes in their seperate steel cages made the load in and out easy, it is not a good solution for sound distribution from these top notch boxes. We are going for some" steeldeck " type staging, one piece either side using 1.0m or 1.2m legs and putting the boxes two per side on this staging. The boxes will be tilted a bit using the proverbial matt black sprayed chunks of timber and each inner cab will be angled in to the front of the dance floor. Thank goodness the scrap metal business is a good payer right now. There will be 440kg of junk steel to weigh in when we get the speakers out of their frames !!. We will use trolley boards to wheel the boxes from truck into venue. Getting the 90kg boxes from floor to staging is either a 4 man lift or better still a small portable forklift !.....relax Ian I have found one that lifts 400kg from 90mm to 1100mm and weighs only 110kg. I love this Nexo system, but also being a bottom end freak, we have got hold of a pair of Turbosound TSW-124's to give monster sub-bass in the larger venues............no idea how these will go with the Nexo system, but heck we are going to find out soon enough........any comments ???? Once again thanks and follow the web site for the first report of this changed set up.Busy rehearsing for run of gigs starting 12th Nov. Happy Mike :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hinds Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Am I right in assuming you have the Nexo AlphaE eF boxes which would explain the heavier lift. I can (if pushed) lift an eM (the top box only) on my own, though a B1-18 takes some doing. I would suggest adding alternate subs to the system may not be the way to go. It's *possible* it may work. However I'd be looking at the NX241 first. The controller allows you to tune the system response. I typically have a gain on the 'main' of -4.5dB, and +1.5dB on the B1-18 output. I also have an array EQ of +2.0dB set on there too. Try that before trying to bodge in. The Nexo works well as a controlled system on its own, when you add other things to it, it can get interesting. Trust me... I've experimented. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanJ Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Hi, Yes, it's the AlphaEF boxes (heavy!) and we also have the NX241-TD controller which is set for our system running 1ea Crown Macro-Tech 5000VZ & 3600VZ power amps. The idea is to run the TSW-124's via an older Nexo analogue crossover we had been using before aquiring the NX241, and a spare 5000VZ that we have...........however, I'll play with the NX241 settings next time out at one of our bigger venues.....interesting to read your settings! Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 All, We are going for some" steeldeck " type staging, one piece either side using 1.0m or 1.2m legs and putting the boxes two per side on this staging. The boxes will be tilted a bit using the proverbial matt black sprayed chunks of timber and each inner cab will be angled in to the front of the dance floor....We will use trolley boards to wheel the boxes from truck into venue. Getting the 90kg boxes from floor to staging is either a 4 man lift or better still a small portable forklift !.....relax Ian I have found one that lifts 400kg from 90mm to 1100mm and weighs only 110kg. If you use 1.0m legs you will make lifting easier... Alpha eF cab height is 1.2m,if your decking is lower than 1.2m you don't actually have to dead lift the boxes. Allow me to elaborate.Place speaker on floor, upright and upside down, front grill facing front of deck.Lean speaker on steeldeck. A bit like this: /[Collect a friend or maybe two to assist process.Ermm, how to explain this...You and your friend start at the bottom (which is actually the top 'cos the box is upside down) and lift the bottom, turning it over so that it finishes on the steeldeck, correct way up and facing the right direction.Sorry, very badly worded. The idea is that half the lift is done before you even start, you don't lift the bottom of the box onto the decking. Perhaps someone more artistic could draw a picture! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Basically you lift the speaker like an upside-down boat, put its front edge onto the front edge of the steeldeck, and roll it up into place.A 3 person job, IMO- one for each side of the cabinet, and one to guide the back into place. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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