which desk question?

[eamon]

HI all

 

As usual you seem to find more lighting guys running venues. I have a semi-decent head for sound as I have to learn fast.

I am looking to upgrade my main house desk, an Allen & Heath GL 2200 24 channel desk. The guy who specs/supplies most of the gear is swearing by Soundcraft a GB8. Having asked around other knowledgable blokes, the only other response is the Midas Venice

 

I am seeking feedback on both desks. Any takers please?

 

My venue is a 286 seater. I cover a mixture of live music/musical/straight theatre etc.

 

thanking in advance

 

 

eamon

[Rob_Beech]

First of all, What is your reasoning for getting rid of the current desk? Is it faulty? do you need more channels, more auxes?

 

I've used the venice on many ocasions and found it to be a nice enough desk, (although like most I dont like the small faders). The GB8 being a new desk doesn't have many opinions as regards reliability as yet but it is a nice enough desk to work with.

Both seem perfectly good desks for what you need. The recording output on the GB8 with its limiter could come in handy but as with all features, they're only a benefit if you use them. Have you not looked at other options?

 

I've recently purchased a A&H GL2800 (32 channel) which has very similar features to the GB8. they're less than £2500 now and it is one of the nicest desks I've worked with of this size. With 10 aux, 11x4 matrix and mute groups you can't go wrong. Its proving to be a very good buy and I've used it in monitor world a few times with great sucess aswell.

 

 

 

Rob

[Chris Hinds]

Used the Venice, used various Soundcrafts though not a GB8. If you want the party line, then Midas make the best desks. Unfortunately for Midas I'm not a party member. I consider the smaller Midas desks especially to be hideously overpriced. For analogue desks I would buy a Soundcraft or one of the new A&H GL series. Digital would be a Yamaha. I wouldn't buy a Midas. It's a more expensive name plate than Rolls Royce and in the Venice's case the build of a Mondeo.

 

Regards

 

Chris

[Mr.Si]

The soundcraft GB8 has been talked about before a bit here

[Ian Cunningham]

I've never been a fan of the Venice - its massively overpriced for the features & spec.

The Master section is an absolute mess - aux sends on 2 differnent connectors, with masters in 3 different places 4 on rotaries 2 on faders and who the hell throught 60mm faders were appropriate!

 

I would look seriously at the new A&H GL series -

I bought a 24ch GL2400 at PLASA and it's everything I could want in a small desk

 

I was looking at the 16ch GB4 but went for the A&H as the 24ch GL2400 is smaller, lighter and cheaper than the 16ch GB4!!

 

I used it in anger on a big charity show with every (and I mean EVERY) input used plus a sub mix into the matrix direct ins - it was a delight to mix on

 

When money comes available I'll be looking at a GL3800 or 4800 next year

 

HTH

Ian Cunningham

Solus Technical Services

[charlyfarly]

I totally agree with solus-ts about the Venice.

I have used a GB8 on monitors a couple of weeks ago and for the price range I think it is a tidy bit of kit. Did what it says on the box!

[Peter F]

The guy who specs/supplies most of the gear is swearing by Soundcraft a GB8. Having asked around other knowledgable blokes, the only other response is the Midas Venice

 

Your paying for the name if you buy a Midas Venice.

It hasn't even got proper faders for pity's sake. Nasty,short 60mm things.

Quite unpleasant to work on.

 

Can't comment on GB8, haven't used it.

 

Peter

[Pete Alcock]

I've never been a fan of the Venice - its massively overpriced for the features & spec.

The Master section is an absolute mess - aux sends on 2 differnent connectors, with masters in 3 different places 4 on rotaries 2 on faders and who the hell throught 60mm faders were appropriate!

 

Nope Don't agree on either of these. The build quality and sound quality is what you're paying for in the Venice, and the Midas is tops. Build quality in terms of the faders, the chassis, even the knobs. It's truly ergonomic and the best laid out desk for real world live sound.

 

The master section is not a mess, it's work of brilliance. The Foldback sends are fully balanced on XLRs because you normally send foldback signals down the snake to the stage, and the fx sends are on jacks because you normally have the FX rack sat by you at front of house where a simple impedance-balanced output on a jack will suffice.

 

Even details like the scribble strip being above the faders - all thought through. Mix a show on one and you'll be convinced.

 

I'll get off my box now.

 

Pete.

[Mr.Si]

what does a 16ch venice and a 24ch Venice (respectively) retail at? I like the sound of XLR Aux sends! - that's a new concept to me as I have been unfortunate in my mixing console usage so far.

 

(Apart from Stewart Newland's GB8)

[griffter]

Pete,

 

Have to agree, The sound quality and build quality are what make the Venice. Ok there are some things I would change on the desk (I.e pads on mic channels!) but generally I think its a very decent board.

 

I've never seen a band rider that says "No Midas" on it!.. but have seen some which say no Allen & Heath etc

 

Regards

 

Griff

[Ian Cunningham]

what does a 16ch venice and a 24ch Venice (respectively) retail at? I like the sound of XLR Aux sends! - that's a new concept to me as I have been unfortunate in my mixing console usage so far.

 

(Apart from Stewart Newland's GB8)

 

The 240 (16+4ste) is £3296 the 320 (24+4)is £4060

the 16+2 GB4 is £1400, the 24+2 is £1850

the 14+2 GL2400 is £1031 the 22+2 is £1365 and the 30+2 is £1779

 

Ian

 

I've never been a fan of the Venice - its massively overpriced for the features & spec.

The Master section is an absolute mess - aux sends on 2 differnent connectors, with masters in 3 different places 4 on rotaries 2 on faders and who the hell throught 60mm faders were appropriate!

 

Nope Don't agree on either of these. The build quality and sound quality is what you're paying for in the Venice, and the Midas is tops. Build quality in terms of the faders, the chassis, even the knobs. It's truly ergonomic and the best laid out desk for real world live sound.

 

The master section is not a mess, it's work of brilliance. The Foldback sends are fully balanced on XLRs because you normally send foldback signals down the snake to the stage, and the fx sends are on jacks because you normally have the FX rack sat by you at front of house where a simple impedance-balanced output on a jack will suffice.

 

Even details like the scribble strip being above the faders - all thought through. Mix a show on one and you'll be convinced.

 

I'll get off my box now.

 

Pete.

 

I didn't mean to suggest that is a bad board - I've mixed many an event on one.

The only real gripe I have is those 60mm faders - even my Folio F1's have 100m faders!

 

Balanced XLR outs are always nice - having said that I rarely run a foldback send without a graphic on it so its the balanced out of the graphic thats driving the line back to the stage

One bonus of the GLs (only spotted this today) is an option for proper balanced TRS jacks on the auxes - you could also flip the groups/auxes to get the insert and XLR out onto the aux send

 

There's things that niggle - the P48 switches are right down by the XLR inputs which are hard to reach from above if there are any inserts or dierct outs connected

the mains IEC is at the top, above the master outputs which gets in the way when patching from above

The travel on the routing switches is so small that its hard to tell whether the're up or down - these are all minor points though (I still think the master section is wierd)

 

The Venice is a solid, well screwed together board there's not doubt about that

 

On a side note I've only had 2 boards up and die on me in the last 12 years - one was an ancient Soundcraft 200 that had never seen a service that lost its main outputs - the other?

Well that was a Venice 320 that was about 2 years old in a permanent instalation (nice clean conference centre) that sat down completely (only the desk lamps and LEDs worked).....

The only desk we had to hand to replace it was a Folio Notepad!!!!!!

 

Ian

[Chubby]

I'm mixing a conference on a Midas venice as I type this post (very boring but free wifi )

OK it has small faders and a odd aux lay-out but the sound quality and the eq are spot on. much better than our new Alan & Heath GL2800 which does on the otherhand have a much more flexible buss and aux structure.

Yet again it horse's for courses.

I've never been a fan of soundcraft desks except the very heavy but great sounding series 5 so I can't really comment.

I guess it comes down to sound quality or flexiblity.

[Bobbsy]

Nope Don't agree on either of these. The build quality and sound quality is what you're paying for in the Venice, and the Midas is tops. Build quality in terms of the faders, the chassis, even the knobs. It's truly ergonomic and the best laid out desk for real world live sound.

 

<snip>

 

I think the best advice might be for the original poster to try and find a Venice board to try out. Although the sound quality is nice, the layout and functionality is NOT to everyone's taste. Personally, I'm in the camp that doesn't like it...I dislike mixing on 60mm faders and find the rest of the layout cramped and unituitive. Other people...as can be seen from the split here....like it a lot.

 

I also consider the Venice series overpriced for what it is...in terms of sound quality, I don't think it's in the same league as its "big brothers" and suspect there may be an element of trading on the Midas name here. FYI, the Venice series is not built in the same factory as the more heavy duty stuff.

 

Personally, like some others, I'd add the appropriately sized A&H board to the shortlist along with the Soundcraft....but again I suggest "try before you buy".

 

Bob

[marc]

Venice every time,

 

The faders are shorter run, but they feel like a fader unlike the other desks that are suggested.

 

I would never buy a cheap Allen and Grief, the faders are soooooo nasty to use, yes price is an issue, but save longer and get a better desk, it takes one look through L&SI and the like to see what brand of desk is used time and again.

 

We often seem to have the low end desk discussion here, and every one seems split on 2 manufacturers, at the end of the day I’m not going to be using it, but I know what desk I will chose to use,

 

Mk

[eamon]

Hi All

 

many thanks for all the varied responses. I have not had an earlier oppertunity to reply due to my silly schedule.

 

I have the chance to upgrade my allen & heath and the two desks everybody I speak to seem to be the afore mentioned units. The desk is currently five years old and there is some grant money floating around....

 

I will obviously test drive any desk I buy but just wish to see what people's opinions were.

 

Many thanks for all informative responses.

 

 

eamon