Started BA(Hons)...

[nickb12345]

Hello

 

I have just started a BA(Hons) in Lighting Design at Rose Bruford and I'm kind of having second thoughts. We have been studying for a week and its all been very academic so far, its all essays and things, and im not exactly the worlds best writer. This is making me think twice about my decision.

 

Ideally I want to be (either at the end of the course or sooner) working on mid/large scale theatre or maybe music productions at an operation level (board opping, spotting etc). From what I have seen of the course I’m on at the end of the three years I will have more chance of getting a job than now, however I will have spent three years and lots of money studying for something totally unrelated to what I want to do.

 

I can get casual work up until the end of January if I jack in the degree course in the next week and I have made some contacts in the West End already on shows such as WWRY and Phantom and plan to send off a CV and bits to these tomorrow.

 

So my question to you is: In my position would you:

 

a) Jack in the degree, take the casual and then hope I can get something to take up in January?

b) Jack in the degree and try and get something from now with the contacts I have?

c) Hang on the three years, get the degree and get a job somewhere then?

d) Hang on studying the degree until something big comes up and jack it in then if the job is worth it?

e) Something else?

 

Thanks for any help, all is greatly appreciated!

 

Rgds

 

Nick

[PDD]

You really shouldn't be surprised that a degree is "very academic", after all it is a degree course. There's been loads of posts on here about courses being next to worthless and institutions passing candidates simply to keep the funding coming in, but at the end of the day the universities have to at least make an attempt for a degree to be equal to a degree in Physics, say. (That's not to say I agree with the situation, but that's irrelevant).

 

I would say you're in an unfortunate position, but you shouldn't be afraid to drop out if the course isn't delivering what you want - after all, you're the customer as the fee payer, or at least that is the way I looked at it when I was p***ed off at uni. You mention you'd rather go into the operation, and presumably production electrician, side of things, in which case I'd say that you've probably made the wrong choice of course. Someone else from Rose Bruford may disagree, but at the time I was looking for prospective courses (over 5 years ago now), I discounted RB because it was too specialised as a lighting designers course. There's another post on here somewhere which suggests there are more and more newly qualified lighting designers coming into a limited market. In the end (and this is intended as an impartial comment), I chose RWCMD because of it's more generalised and fairly work-based course.

 

So you're in a difficult position, but I'd suggest that if you can afford to (realistic), then drop it and seek as much work/experience as you can, whilst applying for something like the RWCMD course (and others) for next September. As a graduate within the last couple of years, I still feel a degree (or at least some level of higher qualification) is very worthwhile, even simply as a maturing exercise before entering the workplace.

[paulears]

Rugby's said it, hasn't he?

 

If you think the writing is bad now, wait till your Rose Bruford disertation in year 3!

 

Seriously, though - You will have plenty of practical stuff. It does perhaps mean they are testing you at the moment to see if you have the staying power to invest 3 years of their time on you. They don't want you dropping out later, so make it tough early on and if you do a runner, they can take in a late entrant to fill your shoes. This isn't bad, and judging by the drop out rate nationally, is no doubt a sensible thing. I guess there are two types of technical people. Those that are happy to stay as a 'doer' and those that eventually move into a management capacity or become self employed. Not everyone wants to let go of the practical aspects. Very few Lighting Designers climb ladders, the 'doers' do that, then off for another cup of tea (Joke - honestly). A degree programme does equip you with the skills necessary to do both, an HND slightly more pointed at doing. If you want to be good at research and development then a degree programme is better. Leaving education and getting a proper job straight off works for some, but the income and responsibilities that come with it mean going back to education later can be painful. I know - that's how I did it - not becoming a teacher until my thirties. By that time a wife, kids and mortgage meant more education was financially very painful - but eventually very worthwhile.

 

Unless you really can't handle the writing, and I've read recent RB 3rd year stuff and didn't think it that bad, to be honest, I'd try to stick it out. After all, what on earth did you think uni was going to be like?

Paul

[nickb12345]

Thanks for the replys guys. Just to let you know I have left the course and persuing the idea of getting work!

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

Nick

[Ken Coker]

Can anyone tell me why I'm bothering to try and make my course of value?

 

Students don't like degrees because they are too academic.

The industry doesn't like degrees because we don't teach how to tighten up hook clamps properly.......why am I doing this??

 

I've almost completed the 20 000 words I need to submit my MSc dissertation..........why am I bothering??

 

Simon, have the pills ready for tomorrow morning!!!

 

Ken

[gareth]

Just as a side-note to this topic (there are several it would have fitted into, but this one's active at the moment!), earlier today I was scanning through a copy of a lighting design magazine geared towards the architectural lighting design market. There's a column in there written by someone who I think is the principal of some fairly large architectural lighting practice, and in this month's column he's talking about a student who was on attachment to the practice. He said (and I'm paraphrasing a bit here, because I can't remember the exact wording) :

Universities don't produce qualified lighting designers, they produce better-educated apprentices.

I think he has a point.

[Simon Lewis]

Nick,

 

If you don't mind me asking, what expectations did you have concerning your degree course? Did you choose it from a number of courses, work hard at your A levels, attend Open Days or Interviews, or did you enter via clearing?

 

I am not in any way questioning your decision, but I am genuinely interested in what you (and many others who enter the higher education system) actually believe the courses to consist of.

 

My colleague Ken is a passionate soul who cares deeply about education (and can verbalise this quite effectively!), but I share his sentiments. It does seem strange that you should apparently spend so long to get to one place, and then to leave ofter one week?

 

A few years back, I did a small study on what students entering a particular course thought they would study, and compared it with what they felt they had done during the year. The two were very different. I came up with a few observations, but noted that without any other frame of reference, many thought it would be the same as the A level or BTEC they were completing. This is understandable, and places the onus on Universities and Colleges to highlight the difference in teaching and learning that we expect of students.

 

The debate over the extent of practical experience, education v. training, BA v. BSc etc., will continue, and there is no final answer - merely a continuum of opportunity that HE providers strive to perfect. What I would hope for is that those wishing to study within the HE sector look carefully at what is actually taught, how it is delivered, and why it is included.

I have no problem with people choosing not to go to University or College. I am concerned that some (Perhaps you included?) have a false picture of just what the HE courses really are about.

 

Forgive me if this is a little personal, but you've made known your decisions on a public forum. If you feel able to reply (publically or via PM), I should appreciate it!

 

Simon Lewis

[Kiwi]

Students don't like degrees because they are too academic.

The industry doesn't like degrees because we don't teach how to tighten up hook clamps properly.......why am I doing this??

 

Forgive me for intruding in on the topic, since I don't have many posts here as yet, but my 2p.

 

I think the problem with degrees today is purely the emphasis that's placed on them - both from the industry, and students, points of view.

In employment, degrees have become the benchmark standard that you 'should' have in order to have done a course that is 'worthwhile' and will get you a job. More practial industries, like theatre, have thus ended up with degree courses teaching what is not necessarily degree material, because otherwise it is 'worthless'. And thus, in order for it to be certified as a degree it has to have a certain level of academic work, in an area where this is not necessarily necessary, or suitable. (Though, don't imagine I'm saying this is the case with every course - there is obviously a place for academic work in some).

Really we need something equivelant to a degree, for vocational work, that is treated with the same degree of respect and requires and equivalant level of skill.

 

On the other hand, as a student that's just left school, I think there is far too much emphasis placed on university. Whilst I'm sure it's not the case everywhere, in a lot of schools the basic choice that's given is go to uni, take gap year, or get a job, with by far the most emphasis placed on the first option. I know soo many people that are going to uni for, what I consider to be, all the wrong reasons. They're going because they don't know what else to do, they don't want to get a proper job, or they want a 24/7 party. I want to go to uni because I want to study - granted I want to join some mad societies, do lots of theatre, and generally have a fun social life as well, but it's not my sole reason for going. People my age have not really been presented with much of a choice, because basically everyone is expected to go to uni - which is mad, because it's simply not the right thing to do for everyone. (and don't even start me on the governments 'let's get 50% of all young people into uni' - call me elistist, but I think that's a seriously good way of a lot of people wasting a lot of time, and at the same time devaluing, to a further extent, the meaning of a uni education). I just think it's a shame that we're not given more options (not to say the options (eg. apprenticeships etc) don't exist, just that they're not given enough emphasis).

 

I'll go now...

[Just Some Bloke]

Kiwi makes some very good points, especially when she says

 

Really we need something equivelant to a degree, for vocational work, that is treated with the same degree of respect and requires an equivalant level of skill.

 

When I was teaching in FE about 8 - 10 years ago, we were being told that NVQs were the way forward for vocational courses, and that NVQ Level 4 was of an equivalent standard to a degree. I notice that these things don't seem to have caught on.

 

I worked on road-testing the NVQ4 Music qualification and found that, as with all criteria-based qualifications, they work well for sciences ("can the candidate solve quadratic equations" is easy to test) but not so well for the arts ("can the candidate sing well?" is much harder). The idea is that you break down the job into its component parts. If the candidate can do each of those then they can do the job, by definition. This means that you end up saying "can the candidate sing in tune", "can they remember the words", "can they evoke a response in the listener" and that is where it all falls down. It is impossible to factor out opinions. I think the performance was poor, but you might think it was great. Who is right?

 

Thus, we have the problem that a fair criteria-based qualification for a lighting technician should be quite easy to come up with ("can the candidate rig a profile spot?") but coming up with something for a lighting designer is much harder ("was the design any good?").

 

Degree courses, however, allow you to fill up the qualification with theory, research and essays without having to worry about stating opinions on the candidate. She knows about the theory of lighting design, she has written an interesting thesis on "Alternative Views on Lighting Brecht" and she knows how colour filters are made. Are any of these things "worthless"? No. Do they leave you more likely to get a job than if you'd spent the 3 years in industry? Maybe, maybe not. Do they leave you a more knowledgable person? Yes. Do they prove you can light a variety show today, a band of local spotty youths tomorrow and a play the next day? No - that's not what they're for.

 

Is there an alternative that does prove you can do all the above? Err...

 

Which brings us back where we came in! We need an alternative for those who don't want what a degree can offer. But how do we ensure it's not just an examiner's opinion at the end of the day ("I liked candidate A but not candidate B")? How do we avaoid saying "this LD arrived with a degree-level qualification and I didn't like what he did at all - what do they teach them at college?"?

 

I think I've been rambling again! Sorry!

[didj]

ola,

as a graduate from a technical degree I can see both sides of the coin, the course I attended was very practical, giving a general over veiw of all aspects of technical theatre in the first year and then leading on to subjects that I wanted to specialise in. the bonus for me in my choice was that we had good resourses to work with and pretty much learned on the job. in three years we had a total of six months theory and practical exercises. the rest of the three years was spent working in different theatre environments from our main pros arch theatre, studio theatre, concert rehearsal hall and large scale touring to different theatres, this gave a good practical base to start from, I also had the luxury of being on the casual list for a large theatre in the electrical department and got regular work with a couple of tours thrown in for good measure, however I will say that when in an educational environment students are sheilded from the real world to a certain extent and all the training in the world can be given, but that will not prepare you for the first job when you really start to learn. more and more employers are looking for a recognised qualification, for those wanting to persue that route all I can say is choose wisely, look carefully at different courses and match it to the route you want to take.

 

jon

[Jamtastic3]

didj,

Can I ask where you did your course? I'm aiming to study technical theatre at RSAMD in Glasgow (as I live in Edinburgh) next year.