Floor Mics

[deranged-angel]

Hi All,

 

I need to set up some floor mics for a show that a group of kids are performing in. In total, there will be approx 9 kids, all with very small voices and no matter how much I shout at them, they're not going to speak up!!

I've been looking at previous posts and seen that Boundary mics seem to be the way to go but they were recommended for audiences of 300 or so and this audience is going to be for 1000. Would these still work well?

The stage area is at ground level and approx 25 feet by 15 feet. the audience will be tiered. My sound desk has 8 channels (4 which are XLR's) and I do not have any possibility of mounting mic's in the rig. (as there isn't a rig!)

Also, I noticed people mentioned PCC mics. What exactly are these?

 

Thanks!

Em

x

[tadawson]

Hi All,

 

I need to set up some floor mics for a show that a group of kids are performing in. In total, there will be approx 9 kids, all with very small voices and no matter how much I shout at them, they're not going to speak up!!

I've been looking at previous posts and seen that Boundary mics seem to be the way to go but they were recommended for audiences of 300 or so and this audience is going to be for 1000. Would these still work well?

The stage area is at ground level and approx 25 feet by 15 feet. the audience will be tiered. My sound desk has 8 channels (4 which are XLR's) and I do not have any possibility of mounting mic's in the rig. (as there isn't a rig!)

Also, I noticed people mentioned PCC mics. What exactly are these?

 

Thanks!

Em

x

 

The Crown PCC160 (PCC ==> Phase Coherent Cardioid) is basically a PZM variant that has a cardioid pattern. As such, it is still a flat metal plate boundary mic, but the pattern is only off to one side, which is optimal for stage pickup and feedback rejection. The PCC-160 has been a standard in theatre of all sizes, so I can't imagine any audience size issues having much bearing. The bigger issue is that the PCC, like any other mic, cannot make up for performers who cannot project . . . in that case (and with only 9 folks) on-body mic-ing would probably work best.

 

- Tim

[Rob_Beech]

That all depends whether its 9 kids in total. or 9 kids on at a time..... if its 9 on stage at a time with others goign on at different times it can get very difficult swapping belt packs etc etc. Its bad enough with people that do this work for a living.

 

Rob

[paulears]

CPC do some great metal, sturdy PCC's. They need phantom, of course, but perform really well. Used 3 for a dance show in a 1200 seater yesterday and could hear the stage crew through the PA! The only bit that can break is if a dancer lands on the mini-XLR, snapping it off. Replacing it is easy.

[Bryson]

Paul,

 

Care to share the link to those PCCs? I can't seem to find them.

[bruce]

I'd also be interested to know more about them. I'm guessing you're maybe talking about MP33201 (£37.40), (P531 of 2005 catalogue) - which is described as a "uni-directional half-cardioid boundary condenser mic". Die-cast body, round, phantom powered, black...

 

How does this compare with a PCC-160?

 

Bruce.

[deranged-angel]

Thanks for your replies so far...

 

There will only be 9 kids on stage in total and it will be a performed spoken piece as opposed to singing. The problem with body-micing is the size of my sound desk. I only have 4 XLR sockets.

 

Do you think 3 CPP's (the ones Paulears is talking about) would be enough? And is it more economical to buy them than hire them. We would probably use them in the future so it may be worth investing some money in to them.

 

Cheers

Em

x

[paulears]

Just to confirm, the MP33201 is the one. Just to add a bit more here. Went in for last night of dance show. One of the 3 I was using had no output. Wandering down to the stage, it wasn't there. Just a snapped off cable! I found it four rows back in the stalls. The gaffer tape holding it down was missing. I have no idea what happened, but I had a spare cable from another one, so replaced it. Despite the journey, it worked fine.

 

We have a 10m apron and 3 seems to be the optimum number accross this width ising these mics. 4 doesn't give any extra volume before feedback. They are not too bad at picking up noise through the floor, and are especially good for tap. They also work better than a suspended mic into the relay system if you put them in permanently.

[Carey D]

I need to set up some floor mics for a show that a group of kids are performing in. In total, there will be approx 9 kids, all with very small voices and no matter how much I shout at them, they're not going to speak up!! I've been looking at previous posts and seen that Boundary mics seem to be the way to go but they were recommended for audiences of 300 or so and this audience is going to be for 1000. Would these still work well?

 

Hi. If your young performers are not competing with a full on orchestra then a few boundary mics such as the PCC160 mentioned here placed along the front of the stage should do the job (3:1 distance ratio). I have just finished an amdram musical using some Audio Technica Pro44 boundary mics, worked surprisingly well for me. A couple of shotgun mics (long barrel, very directional) mounted above or on each side of the proc arch facing the rear of the stage would also help pick up the more distant voices. You do need to take time to EQ each mic to minimise feedback when you need a lot of gain.

 

Perhaps you could use a few small 'delay speakers' to distribute the sound more evenly to the audience furthest away. These could be hung from the ceiling (must be installed by a qualified contractor for obvious safety reasons), or positoned along the side walls on brackets or poles. You need to know a bit about how to focus and EQ these speakers, and apply suitable delay (about 1mS per foot plus a bit for 'Haas effect' to focus the listener on the stage rather than the local speaker). Using delays works a treat for plays, or for vocals in musical productions. It means you can keep the main speakers at a more sensible volume rather than trying to reach the rear seating.

 

Hope the show goes well for you. Kids can be a nightmare... but great fun to work with! ;)

Regards,

Carey

[audio]

I did a musical last year with three PCC160s and it worked really well. Ok it wasn't as loud as having individual r/f mics on every performer... but as long as the actors can project its fine. Should be even better with no audience to compete against - good luck!

[noise_boy]

I regularly use PCC160's for productions involving young children to older teenagers. They work fantasticaly well IN THE HALL I WORK IN. I can reccomend microphones til Im blue in the face, but at the end of day I would advise maybe having a look at a number of different boundary mics and seeing which works best for your set-up.

 

Hire companies should be more than willing to let you borrow a couple for a day (at a small charge I should think) in order to test them. Then hire/purchase the microphones that suit your hall/auditorium/theatre best.

[paulears]

Never a great lover of delays in average sized auditoria. My reasoning being that in a venue seating say 1000 on one level I.e the largest travel distance from the stage (a stalls circle venue has less distance for the same capacity) is likely to be no more than 100-120 ft. We have a maximum delay of around 1/10th second. Assuming a delay source is halfway between the two, the delay time comes down accordingly, but 60ms is not that large. With this size venue and these delays, the other snag is that many seats will have multiple paths to them - especially if using a conventional l/r speaker placement, rather than a centre cluster. So someone in seat 1, row J may have a greater time delay from the left speaker than someone centre, a long way back who gets served by a delay loudspeaker. My experience is that in venues like these, a properly designed delay system may well improve the intelligability for some seats, but actually make it worse for others. Delays, fills, and other kit can't just be expected to work - and often don't. If the production budget can't afford a mic per person, and boundary/pcc type mics are used (because they work), then only add extra speakers if a real on site test says the original doesn't work.

[Rich newby]

The problem with body-micing is the size of my sound desk. I only have 4 XLR sockets.

 

Ypu could just use a mic mixer, there small and simple. however I will have to enquire about XLR versions, but I know you can get 1/4 jack inputs. like this

however im not sure on the idea of kid holding/attached to expensive radio mics

[paulears]

don't forget condensers need power - so the Maplin mixer is hopeless (they are also pretty much a bedroom piece of kit.

Probably not the quietest thing in the world.

[chrisdavies]

PCC 160's will most certainly do the job, tho if you have no other back up to you floor mics I would strongly recomend that you dont opt. for one of the cheaper alternatives.

 

ive been using pcc's for a few years now, and I thought I might give u a few tips on gettin the most out of them.

 

firstly, to get away from the problem of pauls miraculous jumping mic, probably caused by some one not seeing the small black plate, might I suggest a box of white gaffa tape, around each pcc to warn performers not to come to close.

 

secondly, all my pcc's are placed on top of a peice of 3/4 inch piece of foam. this reduces the mic sensitivity to sounds travelling through the floor, like footsteps.

 

thirdly, in order to get an extra bid of gain out of the system, assuming that you're usin a three mic setup, pan the C/S mic to 12 o'clock, the S/R mic to 2 o'clock, and the the S/L mic to 11 o'clock. this reduces the possibility of feedback, increasing the amount of gain available.

 

good luck, hope the production goes well

 

chris