What do they ACTUALLY teach on a btec course?

[Scouse Dave]

We have had a new tech volunteer at church for the past few weeks. He came with a recommendation from someone - not sure who... not my dept (I just look after the gear)

 

He is fresh out of college with a shiny new btec, which was live sound & lighting related.

 

A couple of weeks ago I asked him if he knows how to use a parametric EQ for the lav mic. He tells me he has seen one, but doesn't really know how to use one.

 

I think this a bit odd, but we were rushed and so I set it up, telling him I would explain another time.

 

His mixes sound just OK but are generally a bit dead and confuzzled.

 

In the middle of the service this week, I wandered back to the mixing desk and have a look at the channel strip EQs.

 

EVERY SINGLE SWEEP on the desk has been left turned hard anticlockwise (where I tend to put them when I've finished). There are a few boosts & cuts but not a single sweep knob has been touched.

 

I ask him if he knows what the sweeps do: he asks what a sweep is. I say "The green ones between the blue ones"

 

He says that he wasn't sure what they did and so tends to leave them alone...

 

WHAT DO PEOPLE LEARN ON THESE COURSES????????

 

I'm happy to provide more training for him (and will do as a matter of urgency), but I was under the impression that my taxes have just paid for a course that taught him pretty much nothing.

 

He isn't sure what DMX is used for, either (DMX - is that sound or lighting?)

 

/rant

 

Dave M

[Just Some Bloke]

Don't forget that there are two different types of Btec First awards and three different types of Btec National awards, all offering a different level of qualification. Then there are Performing Arts awards that touch on Technical Theatre a little, or Sound Engineering courses that don't look at dance, drama, music, costume etc. and can therefore give more time to EQ. The basic Btec First award in Performing Arts certainly would not need to offer tuition on parametric EQ but the top Btec National in Sound certainly should.

 

I have to say, though, that not knowing what DMX is makes you wonder who recommended him!

[Scouse Dave]

Don't forget that there are two different types of Btec First awards and three different types of Btec National awards, all offering a different level of qualification. Then there are Performing Arts awards that touch on Technical Theatre a little, or Sound Engineering courses that don't look at dance, drama, music, costume etc. and can therefore give more time to EQ. The basic Btec First award in Performing Arts certainly would not need to offer tuition on parametric EQ but the top Btec National in Sound certainly should.

 

I have to say, though, that not knowing what DMX is makes you wonder who recommended him!

He did a First award - I think it was technical theatre.

 

I wasn't at all bothered about the parametric EQ but thought he might have come accross one at some point.

 

I would say that Basic EQ comes above knowing what DMX is... but maybe that's just me.

 

The fact he didn't know how to use the channel EQ on a GL3300 I find absolutely mind boggling! Whenever I am talking a new person through the desk, one of the first things I do is say: Here's the gain (PFL, pretty lights, red = not good, blah blah blah...), Here's the EQ - let's play and see how the EQ changes the sound - The Green knob does this, the blue knob does this...

 

Surely a First award should make it so that anybody who passes through knows how to use basic EQ... I'm not expecting him to ba able to correctly set up a line array or anything...

 

I ask for very little. And boy do I get it.

 

Dave M.

[steve1159]

Similar scenario-I know someone who has a BTEC in stage management as well as some other backstage qualifications but he is a liability to be let loose on a stage. We had to remind him what stage left and stage right were, how to roll a cloth and that if you take the weights off a flat it falls over dragging the brace with it.

 

I also heard about someone that was employed at a theatre as their first full time job after completing a theatre technical qualification(don't know exactly what) and it took them over an hour to fit a 63A single phase plug on the end of a lead and even then it had to be redone as the cable clamp was not done up, one wire had not been stripped back far enough and all 3 wires had half their strands waving in the air around the terminal.

 

Again it raises the question what do some of these course actually teach that can be practically used.

 

Slightly off topic saw a program that pointed out that a current GCSE home economics course (cooking) produces people that can give you a full protein and fat breakdown of a meal but can't actually cook a proper meal (excluding microwave dinners)

[Andrew C]

Article in "The Stage"

 

I don't think there is a topic to add this to, nor do I personally want to add anything to it. I'll leave that to others...

 

Dons flameproof suit...

[MikeR]

I think weve had this conversation.

[Ken Coker]

Well, I could have been a judge once but I didn't have the latin.

 

Given that Tony Hall is the chief executive of the ROH, he would really only have to look at his board to see a fine cross section of the"ill-informed and underqualified" as well as an upper class bunch of txxxxxs.

 

Cheers

 

Ken

 

PS

 

Oops, thought the BR would edit out the word "". Apologies to those offended.

[Stu]

Moderation Note: This topic merged with "Arts flooded with poorly qualified graduates"

[pete LD]

Q. What do they ACTUALLY teach on a btec course?

A. Nothing.

 

that's the simple way of putting it!

I have been on said btec and had to leave because it was shockingly bad. Ill spend the next 5 mins boring you with my story!

I have worked at an amateur theatre in hinckley since I was 13 doing props on stage then stage work and moved to lighting when I was about 16. I lernt a lot from people there and taught myself a lot on the lighting side. when it cane to the career choices you have to make I chose to go the A level way because theatre was my hobby.

After a year I changed my mind and looked at doing a btec in tech theatre (am I allowed to say which college?) anyway spent the summer looking forward to all the new stuff I would learn.

1st lighting lesson. it was taken by a dance teacher because they didn't have a lighting one. we spent 5 mins chatting by which time she realized the 4 people on the cause knew more than she did. we then set up a small touring rig then she picked tiny faults about safety.

that's how the year went.

I left after 9 months they told me I wouldn't get any where without my btec.

I havent had a day of for weeks. I'm followspoting Saturday night fever at brum hipp at the mo.

they didnt teach me to do that at college!

thanks for listening to my rant!!

Pete :o

[adrenalinjunkie]

Hmmm I never did a btec as such I went straight on to a HND in technical theatre from a levels. Whilst it taught me a lot what it mainly did was give me enough knowledge to start working in the industry and start learning by doing. I've picked up so much more working than I did on the course.

[Guest lightnix]

To be fair, I think that the business has to shoulder at least part of the blame for the current state of affairs. It's all very well moaning in the trade press, but there has on the whole, been little or no interest expressed by theatre or other companies, in getting together and setting out what they consider to be essential core skills for their various technicians; let alone devising suitable training courses and appointing decent course providers. Just about any time you ask these people what they want from their crews, you get a wry chuckle and a vague reply like, "just people who can get on and do the job." Look at any job ad: how often do you see qualifications mentioned? Practically never, all you ever seem to get are calls for people who are "experienced in..."

 

There has been a lot of scepticism and cynicism expressed towards graduates over the years, as a "bunch of know-it-alls", with "too many pre-conceived ideas". Many companies just want untrained school-leavers, who can be moulded in their own image while on the job, by custom and practice, regardless of whether that produces a competent individual in the end. There are others, who are simply afraid of those whom they feel "know too much", because it exposes their own lack of knowledge and ability and poses a threat to their position of authority. I've had more than one company tell me that they are looking for "good, experienced" lighting crew members, but then, when I've laid my experience in front of them, have shrunk back in their chairs and told me that I'm "a bit overqualified for what they do."

 

We all know that "qualified" doesn't automatically mean "competent", but the truth IMHO, is that despite all the lip-service paid to the ideal of "proper training", the business as a whole doesn't really want highly-trained individuals who are capable of independent thought; all it wants is a bunch of semi-skilled monkeys who will do what they're told, when they're told, without asking questions, expressing opinions, or blowing anything up. Until that basic attitude changes, the business will continue to get the people it wants (maybe even deserves), rather than those it actually needs.

[pete LD]

that's a very good point. but when I was a young person looking to get in to the industry I don't know what companies want or Even what jobs there are. I knew nothing about freelancing which is most peoples way in to the industry. the problems I found was I was teaching the collage "technical staff" about DMX all they knew was a gray lead went from the out put on the desk to somewhere in the dimmer room.

they thought it was an analogue system because they had 8 analogue dimmer packs. I had to show them that hidden in the room was a demux and the signal was DMX. this I found a bit poor and if I finished the btec and wandered in to the brum hippodrome thinking analogue went via a 5 pin XLR I would have never been used again.

I have smiler issues with the kit colleges use not a ETC product in sight and again at the hipp people say grab a source 4 50 of the meat rack in the dock. that would mean nothing if your not in the know!

I'm going to stop talking rubbish now and go bed.

pete :o

[Just Some Bloke]

There are a lot of interesting points raised by this thread.

 

Firstly, Pete tells us that, at his college:

 

 

I was teaching the college "technical staff" about DMX. All they knew was a grey lead went from the output on the desk to somewhere in the dimmer room.

 

That's disgraceful. With so many graduates looking for a job, how come we end up with college "technical staff" who don't know what DMX is?

 

Pete also says

 

1st lighting lesson. It was taken by a dance teacher because they didn't have a lighting one.

 

Dave tells us of a BTec Sound and Lighting graduate who:

 

... isn't sure what DMX is used for (DMX - is that sound or lighting?)

 

Again, both quite appalling. All FE colleges have their BTec courses overseen by an External Moderator whose job is to ensure that the BTec given by your college is the same standard as any similar BTec awarded by any other college in the country. Now, I know some colleges that offer quite good BTecs in Technical Theatre that are miles better than this, so what on earth is the External Moderator doing? He (or she) should be sacked immediately and the courses closed down.

 

 

Again, there is no justification for passing someone on any Technial Theatre course for whom:

 

We had to remind him what stage left and stage right were...and that if you take the weights off a flat it falls over.

 

Secondly, adrenalinejunkie tells us that:

 

I've picked up so much more working than I did on the course.

 

This is something we hear quite often and is a different matter. It ties in with what Pete says about:

 

 

I have similar issues with the kit colleges use: not an ETC product in sight. Again, at the Hipp people say "grab a source 4 50 of the meat rack in the dock". That would mean nothing if you're not in the know!

 

There are differences between colleges and professional theatre, not the least of which is that when professional theatres put on a show it is in order to make money, whereas when colleges put on a show it costs them money. Thus budgets are tight in FE and it's not easy to afford new Source 4s. Also, because colleges have to teach as well as put on shows, productions occur less often than at a pro theatre. Thus students work less on shows than they would in a job.

 

I see two ways of helping the situation here:

 

1) Colleges should work as closely as they can with any local pro theatre(s). They should visit these venues to teach anything they can't cover at college (e.g. flying if the college doesn't have a fly tower). They should arrange work experience. They should let the venues suggest any other ways they may be able to help.

2) Colleges should encourage students to work casually at local theatres. One girl at my venue used to work a lot as a casual until she started her BTec. Now she is often unable to make the calls, eith because she has a show to prepare at college or because she is working behind the bar at a local club who pay more than we do, in order to help pay off debts. We certainly aren't allowed to take anyone out to work on our 72 performances of panto as they'll miss out on a two night show at college.

 

This leads on to the third point, made by Tony Hall:

 

Each year we have an oversupply of graduates trying to get into the creative industries. The creative industries are fiercely competitive, so employers can afford to be highly selective when recruiting.

 

True. If you look at the number of, so called, "trained" and "Qualified" lighting designers coming out of college each year it's probably more than the total number of full-time lighting designers working in the UK. That's go to be ridiculous. Students need to know this when they go in so they are aware that, if they want to get the job they're looking for, they need to work hard and get loads of experience.

 

This also links in with Lightnix's comment that:

 

the business as a whole doesn't really want highly-trained individuals who are capable of independent thought; all it wants is a bunch of semi-skilled monkeys who will do what they're told, when they're told, without asking questions, expressing opinions, or blowing anything up. Until that basic attitude changes, the business will continue to get the people it wants (maybe even deserves), rather than those it actually needs.

 

I can see your point here, nix. In a producing house it would be useful to have a crew that could can make suggestions as to how things could be done better. In a receiving house, though, all we really need is people who'll do as they're told and understand the correct way of doing it safely (without blowing anything up!)

 

So, overall what lessons can be learnt?

 

Try a few more questions instead:

 

1) If we've got so many more graduates than jobs, why do colleges have "technical staff" who don't know what DMX is? ... or dance teachers taking lighting classes?

 

2) Why aren't the moderators doing their jobs properly?

 

3) Why do people like Dave feel the need to say:

 

[I ask for very little. And boy do I get it.

 

 

Yikes!

:)

 

P.S. Sorry about correcting the spelling and grammar of the quotes - I couldn't help myself! Once a lecturer, always a lecturer I suppose!

[Dom Bell]

well as far as I can tell after doing the first 3 months on and off about 7 years ago sweet FA. pointless waist of time so I went and got a job, that worked a little better,

[bright spark]

My personal experience with BTEC courses has been interesting.

 

In my experience there seems to be two sorts of students...

 

The students who go in knowing what they are doing, get the BTEC, and come out and do a fantastic job.

 

Then the students who are on the course for a two year doss (otherwise their mum will make them work), get the BTEC work in a theatre, and walla, a know-nothing student who doesn't really want to learn.

 

Scouse Dave, I appreciate your comments, but I think we should not tar every BTEC with the same brush, as there are some BTECs I know who are very very good.

 

In fact some BTECs I know are working for PRG, Stage Electrics and the like.

 

Colleges should encourage students to work casually at local theatres. One girl at my venue used to work a lot as a casual until she started her BTec. Now she is often unable to make the calls, eith because she has a show to prepare at college or because she is working behind the bar at a local club who pay more than we do, in order to help pay off debts.

 

I met a BTEC guy on a gig, who said that he had taken the day off from college to work on the gig we were both on. The BTEC said that it was a get-out day at the college, and that there was a rig of 15 generics, three dimmers and a fat frog; and the tutor said that she was not happy with him taking the day off.

 

How pathetic, surely logistically its better to let a student go on a gig (a big corporate gig) where there were moving lights, pearls etc, than making them stay and pull up gaffertaped cables??? Having spoken to him in more detail, it appeared that the tutor knew very little, therefore potentially felt at threat?

 

So whilst I agree with you 'Just Some Bloke' I am afraid that a lot of tutor and so called course managers (businessmen/polititians with no idea of what happens in the industry) who are stopping people getting experience.

 

Work experience wise, again another good idea, I have heard rumours of favouritism; the dossers get the work experience to make up for the experience they lack outside college - but do they give a french duck??? Of course not.

 

In fact, one dosser I know of spend a week with a lighting company and now thinks shes the director, and frequently makes comments that makes her sound like she is a rep of that company.