New hall.... H&S and PEL..

[lonfire]

Hi,

our church is going to be taking a lease on a disused school building.. I'm currently looking at H&S type stuff and as part of that what we need todo to get a public entertainment licence for events..

 

before people say "get a fire officer in" we are going to.. but I've got some meetings coming up where I'd like to know roughly what will need to be done..

 

I'll give u the specs of the hall..

 

firedoors are very old.. not auto closing.. cardboard fireexit signs above the internal fire exits.. fire alarm system integrated with the rest of the school, no smoke/heat detectors just smash glass boxes.. all main doors are on deadlocks, no push bar fire doors.

 

the halls around 33' x 44' (perhaps bigger) with sliding doors to another 33' x 30' ish hall. plus a "kitchen" area which is mainly storage but will be fitted with a kitchen..

 

no warning signs on hot water taps or anything like that..

 

I don't know whats needed and what isn't so anything that you think would be helpful would be great..

 

thanks for your help guys!

 

rgds

chris

[Brian]

First up, as of 26th November PELs as we know then cease to exist. From that date you will need a Premises Licence. These are issued by your local council and it is they that you should ask for advice.

 

Your council should have adopted the Yellow and Green books by now, so time to buy a copy of each.

 

'Technical Standards for Places of Entertainment' and 'Model National Standard Conditions for Places of Entertainment'.

 

A copy of 'Guide to Fire Precautions in Existing Places of Entertainment and Like Premises' will also be useful.

 

I'm going to suggest that there is no point asking here what you need to do. Those books above come to over 600 pages and you'll need to comply with most of it.

[paulears]

First up, as of 26th November PELs as we know then cease to exist. From that date you will need a Premises Licence. These are issued by your local council and it is they that you should ask for advice.

 

Your council should have adopted the Yellow and Green books by now, so time to buy a copy of each.

 

'Technical Standards for Places of Entertainment' and 'Model National Standard Conditions for Places of Entertainment'.

 

A copy of 'Guide to Fire Precautions in Existing Places of Entertainment and Like Premises' will also be useful.

 

I'm going to suggest that there is no point asking here what you need to do. Those books above come to over 600 pages and you'll need to comply with most of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As Brian says - the requirments are vast - your local council with have their own ideas which are critical and which they are not so interested in. To be honest, the best thing to do is to contact he town hall first, explain what you are doing and let them visit you. They will lead you through the application process - especially as the new system is new to them as well. They will try to be helpful. I've always found the authorities fairly up front. When it gets to enforcement, it is a completely different matter. If you ask for advice, they actually like getting involved early on - and can save you money, by not letting you waste it on items that don't need replacing. A job I did a couple of years was going to cost a lost of money to replace the old fire doors with new - routing in intumescent strips was much cheaper than replacing a perfectly good door, with one with them pre-fitted.

[Jivemaster]

If your church has a hierarcical structure then they, at some level probably retain professionals to do just this for you. Direct liason with your council is essential, They will inspect for licence so ask them what is necessary.

[lonfire]

hi,

thanks for the replys (and pm's).. we aren't linked to any denomination therefore we are on our own in that respect..

 

I understand I need to talk to the various authorities..etc just wanted an idea of what sort of work might be required so I can push people to get things on the road as it were.. I dont think the people "incharge" understand how much work there is to be done..

 

it does sound quite variable whats required.. sounds like an initial meeting is the way forwards..

 

cheers

chris

[Brian]

it does sound quite variable whats required.. sounds like an initial meeting is the way forwards..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A meeting with your LA is a good idea. However, what is required should not be variable, that's why so much stuff is written down.

 

Oh, and you'll also need to comply in full with Building Regs.

[Snailtrail]

Have you got an architect or anyone involved with the project?? If so, then they will know the legislation that is needed to conform to.

 

Also AFAIK, churches don't come under the same rules as places of entertainment (someone may put me right on this) which is ok as long as you don't want to start hiring the building out.

 

As others have mentioned, it's better to get the LA involved first because it can asve you a whole lot of time and dosh outting things right afterwards.

 

  I dont think the people "incharge" understand how much work there is to be done..

Think of a number of man hours that they think it will take, double it, add todays date into it and the birthdays of a few relatives and you'll be a bit closer to reality... :)

 

It really is a lot of work as you're aware of.

 

Sam

 

Moderation: Two posts merged. If your post is still the last in the topic please use the edit button!

[LJones]

Also AFAIK, churches don't come under the same rules as places of entertainment (someone may put me right on this) which is ok as long as you don't want to start hiring the building out.

 

To an extent this is correct – certain exemptions exist in churches and other places of worship providing the activities are for worship or other religious purposes. I agree that there might be other safety considerations when hiring out the building for non-religious purposes.

 

I would like to comment that, as far as fire regs are concerned, the specification needed under the new Fire Safety Order would be the same level as a theatre or similar venue. Your Risk Assessment would need to take into consideration the numbers of people versus staff (i.e. volunteer stewards) in any case – the situations are very similar. Don’t forget that a large part of H&S is about proving “due diligence†so if something happens, you have the paperwork as proof/evidence.

 

Many people erroneously think that the regulations (in that I mean all H&S regs) do not apply in churches and places of worship. In my work with an organisation I started called ChurchSafety, this is a very common barrier and many churches don’t think they need to bother. I don’t want to plug the organisation too much for fear of being edited out (we are not-for-profit though), but we have some information available on the ChurchSafety Website about fire safety in churches and we have a developing “Code of Best Practice†which might be useful.

 

I hope this is some help,

Lyn Jones

[lonfire]

hi,

I have been on that website a while ago.. very useful..

 

as we do alot of youth work, we do alot of other entertainment type events thats why we want the PEL.. your right that you don't need one for soley "religous" events..

 

thanks

chris

[lonfire]

hi,

just an update.. have talked to licensing officer at the local council office.. and we've also contacted the local fire officer for a visit next week.. aiming to get a premises license in november when we've got the hall upto standards..

 

thanks

rgds

chris

[lonfire]

hi,

had the fire officer in.. and he was well.. very laid back to say the least (but pretty helpful about how to get planning and stuff..).. they showed him some plans about what we would want todo to the building and he was like yeah.. looks ok..

 

"anything we need todo in the short term" "nah, not massively"..

"I thought fire doors had to open outwards" "nah not really, just reduces the number of people it can be used for"

 

right.. easier than I thought it was going tobe..

 

rgds

chris

[Brian]

Sounds like it's all going to plan.

 

I think people sometimes worry without good reason. Talk to your local licensing and fire authorities - it's often easier than you fear.

[adove]

Sounds like it's all going to plan.

 

I think people sometimes worry without good reason. Talk to your local licensing and fire authorities - it's often easier than you fear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I fear you are counting your chickens - the local authority will be licensing you and the building control officer will be somewhat more thorough.

 

You are right about swinging doors etc - building control will probably pick all this up (they are now the staturay authority - the fire officer is only an advisor)

 

Get some good drawings done, and spend some time on the DCMS website regarding the new licensing system.

 

Good luck, Alan.