What do I actually need?

[BethB]

Lots of people keep giving me conflicting information about what the best qualifications are to go into the industry seriously... I was thinking Maths and Physics were fantastically helpful and would be great but recently a careers adviser suggested I do a music tech course at a local college ;) ??

 

To be honest I just don't know what to do!?!

 

Could anyone give me any advice as to the best course of action as I'm getting experience I just need better qualifications...

 

Gb xox

[Guest lightnix]

Hello BethB, welcome to the Blue Room ;)

 

Hmmm... tricky one that. A little more info would help - what area of the business are you most interested in? What sort of work do you want to do? Lighting, Sound, Stage Management? Production? Something Else?

[BethB]

Hello BethB, welcome to the Blue Room ;)

 

Hmmm... tricky one that.  A little more info would help - what area of the business are you most interested in?  What sort of work do you want to do? Lighting, Sound, Stage Management? Production? Something Else?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Sound for gigs and maybe even theatre

 

Gb xox

[paulears]

Hi Beth - If you are good at maths and physics - go for 'em. Both will help you no end in pretty well every field, because they are solid, sensible and damn useful things to really understand.

 

Career advisors have taken 6 years to get a handle on Music Tech. Their advice (in my experience of the performing arts and music in particular) should be taken as complete rubbish. I'm sure some know their stuff, but most of the ones I've met have no idea whatsoever about the subject that most of us love. Like lightnix says, what do you want to actually do. It seems you think backstage (after all, you found us) Why does the careers person then suggest music tech? Probably knows more about it?

 

So, tell us what you have done already, what you like doing and where you see yoursewlf working in 5 years

paul

[Ken Coker]

No diss to FE establishments, but the level of technology involved in a Music Technology course can vary quite dramatically from college to college - and I have very real evidence of this. Having said that, there are plenty of competent sound engineers who do not have a technology base. If you are going to a local college, then check the course content quite carefully and the future plans of the institution - clearly this advice applies to any establishment, FE or HE.

 

I would take the maths and physics options while you can, especially if you have good teachers and enjoy the subjects. In my experience these are subjects quite difficult to pick up later in life as we tend not to use many more complex aspects of the subjects on a everyday basis; one could argue, however, that one needs very few of these in everyday entertainment industry work. Also, two good A-levels will give you a much broader choice for a degree - it keeps your options open for longer.

 

Obviously I work in the HE sector so lean towards the degree path. However, this is by no means suitable for all and there are many good course outside this path. As a number of contributors have said you need to think what is best for you. Map the abilities, skills and interests you have now against those which you want to achieve. Try writing to course/programme leaders who run courses that interest you and asking them about what you want to do. For myself, I would rather have a happy student on another course than an unhappy student on my own - and I believe most lecturers feel this way.

 

Hope this helps

 

Ken

[Guest lightnix]

Ditto the Maths and Physics - some kind of computer course might be of use, too.

 

If you want a chance of making a reasonable living out of showbusiness, then stay away from Theatre, unless you wish to use it to gain some experience at the start of your career. The term "Gigs" covers a wide range of live events, such as concerts, award shows, conferences, trade shows and fashion shows, to name but a few.

 

As a lampie, I'm not the best person to advise on sound courses, but if you don't get the answers you are looking for in here, then you could do a lot worse than contact a few Sound / PA hire companies to ask them for advice on what sort of qualifications they consider "relevant". You might well be able to get some useful work experience from some of them, too, but don't expect to be sent out on shows straight away. Most people start in the warehouse, prepping the equipment, repairing cables and making the tea.

 

Best of luck and keep in touch

[Simon Lewis]

BethB,

 

Many posters have given you good advice, and I would simply add the following:

 

1) Often the best practical learning is that which is gained on the job. That is why volunteering, taking a gap year, work placement etc. are invaluable.

 

2) Going to University isn't just about learning how to do your chosen branch of the industry (valuable though that is).... it's also about learning how to learn independently, nurturing an enquiring mind that can move from understanding and application and develop skills in evaluation and synthesis. It also incorporates the ability to obtain, handle, manage and communicate data, ideas and processes. We would call these transferable skills, and they are valuable to future employers.

 

3) "Music Tech" covers a very wide range of disciplines, and is probably firmly on the Careers Adviser's radar, as it is an established subject area. However, there are many other programmes:

Use the UCAS course search function (e.g. search for 'sound', 'light', 'event technology', 'theatre', 'sound design' etc.) and you will find many good, specialist courses.

 

4) If you are happy with maths and physics, stick with them. They are excellent subjects that help you to understand many of the processes that get discussed here and in the wider industry. You can get onto a technical degree with them, or pursue other options.

 

 

Hope this helps...

 

Simon

[Ben Lawrance]

When I left school I was in the same boat.

 

I went to college to do a BTEC Diploma in Technical Theatre, but along with this I did loads of work experiance.

 

Qualifications are important, don't get me wrong. But real life experiance is more valuble I would say.

 

Ask around, see if any one needs there stage sweeping or cables de-gaffering. Start at the bottom of the ladder and work up.

[tour monkey]

Hi BethB,

 

Personally, I'd say your best bet is to find yourself a local theatre/venue/hire company, that are willing to have you make the tea, re-tape multicore, sweep stages etc etc. Get yourself as much experience as possible. Unfortunately, the likelihood is that to start with it will be unpaid! Maths and Physics are probably a good idea if your decide to go down the route of further education, they will all help, would I be right in thinking your doing A-levels?

 

For me personally, and I'm not saying this is the right way to do things to definitely make your career in sound, I managed to get myself a job at our local theatre having done nearly a years worth of voluntary work for them. I decided A-levels weren't the best option for me, and 2 years down the line I'm freelance whilst still doing a bit at the theatre, and in a few weeks time, hopefully (fingers crossed) going to be embarking on my first full-time tour.

 

Obviously, the downside to the way I've done things is that if a career in sound doesn't work out for me, I don't have a great deal to fall back on. But the way I look at it, is that I can always re-train at a later date.

 

To sum things up, (I've rambled on slightly) in my view of things, qualifications will be useful to you for some things, however I believe experience is far more valuable in this industry.

 

Good luck to you, and I hope that this may help you!!

 

Munky :)

[BethB]

Personally, I'd say your best bet is to find yourself a local theatre/venue/hire company, that are willing to have you make the tea, re-tape multicore, sweep stages etc etc.  Get yourself as much experience as possible.  Unfortunately, the likelihood is that to start with it will be unpaid!  Maths and Physics are probably a good idea if your decide to go down the route of further education, they will all help, would I be right in thinking your doing A-levels?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm in the middle of other alevels and wondering if I should retake different ones before I head off to Uni as I'm currently doing English, Classics, Music and Maths... I really wanted to do Physics but it was oversubscribed at my school and I'm trying to do a one-year course thing maybe...

 

For me personally, and I'm not saying this is the right way to do things to definitely make your career in sound, I managed to get myself a job at our local theatre having done nearly a years worth of voluntary work for them.  I decided A-levels weren't the best option for me, and 2 years down the line I'm freelance whilst still doing a bit at the theatre, and in a few weeks time, hopefully (fingers crossed) going to be embarking on my first full-time tour. 

Obviously, the downside to the way I've done things is that if a career in sound doesn't work out for me, I don't have a great deal to fall back on.  But the way I look at it, is that I can always re-train at a later date.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks for the advice... I'm currently looking around for ork experience... trouble is so is everyone else and until I have passed my driving test I'm at a bit of a disadvantage...

 

To sum things up, (I've rambled on slightly) in my view of things, qualifications will be useful to you for some things, however I believe experience is far more valuable in this industry. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Quite a few people on here have said that experience in the industry is far more valuable than qualifications and so thats been a lot of help to know (seeming as lots of you are already there it makes sense that you would know best...)

 

Thank you very much for all the help I shall continue hunting around...

 

Gb xox

[paulears]

Ken mentions the difference is Music Tech courses throughout the country. He's right, but the difference isn't standards, it's content. Although the qualification is tagged 'Music Technology', no matter if it is BTEC or AS/A2 level, the actual things taught are very different. BTEC, in particular lets the schools and colleges make up the content - by choosing from options in the spec. Although a few things are mandatory, much can be selected to suit the students (but normally, the teachers!)

 

What this means is that you could get through the Music tech with only a casual glance at recording, or spend lots of time on a a hardware or software recording system, and never do much work with midi.

 

Once college I know of make their students build a computer system from scratch, install the software and then use it - a sensible choice if ever I heard one. Others insist all computer issues are technician fixable problems, students don't get involved!

 

That's why everyone should check the content of a course they are considering, not the title.

[Mark Payne]

Hi all,

 

I employ a full time staff of 14 people at Sound Foundation, 10 of which work directly with technical production (Sound Light AV) in some form or other, from warehouse through event engineering to production management and client handling.

 

In addition we use another 10 key freelancers around half of which would regard us as their top customer (we give them most of their work).

 

Out of these 20 or so people, only 1 has formally trained in "music technology" or related courses.

 

Some points and opinions, feel free to disagree:

 

I believe in training. I like to be mentored and I like to mentor.

 

You need two degrees in life. A degree of experience and a degree of success.

 

As an employer, I have a reducing confidence in the diferenciating value of a degree. I am wary of schools that teach so much recording for an industry that does not exist.

 

The event industry is about passion. The people that REALLY want it will do it independant of a training path.

 

Musicianship is important for sound enginners. I am wary of sound engineers that do not play anything. They don't have to play well!

 

I have the utmost respect for people with traditional engineering skills. Mechanical, electrical/electronic and realted maths, physics.

 

People skills are just as important as technical skills.

 

Any interview at Sound Foundation will involve you in soldering XLR cables. I like to watch how good people are with their hands. A man/woman that cannot solder should starve;-) AV engineers will be expected to make VGA.... you have been warned!

 

Thats mp 2ps worth

 

Cheers

 

Mark

[paulears]

Great to hear someone talking common sense for once. I like the practical test.

 

Mark - any stories about people who couldn't do the test? How bad were they?

[Mark Payne]

Great to hear someone talking common sense for once. I like the practical test.

 

Mark - any stories about people who couldn't do the test? How bad were they?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"Can you solder?"

Yes

"Do you know how to wire an XLR?"

Yes

 

So I sit him/her down at the workbench. Throw them the bits and some cable.

 

100% of the time it's a total mess or.... its OK but took 20 mins!

So then I demonstrate how to do one in approx 3mins (both ends).

Then they do it again.

...And I watch to see if anything has been learned. At this stage I am looking for marked improvement and a connector that I cannot remove from the cable by shaking it!

 

Cheers

 

Mark

[timperrett]

I have a BA(hons) in Lighting Design, and I will freely admit that it does not make you a lighting designer, but gives you an appreciation for it. The course concentrates on the creative rather than too much on the technical.

 

When going to an interview for a fulltime job with a company such as Mark's surely I would not be employed as I am not great at all with a soldering iron, however, I believe I have skills in other areas - in the creative and managerial for example.

 

Do we all have to be technicians? Is not the creative part of a production equally important and should a company not have highly creative people in it in order for it to produce an 'original' product to their client that will stand out from the rest?

 

I do have a fair amount of technical knowledge, but I hate fixing things! I can't stand the bare electronics of kit, should I therefore go off and do something else?