Microphone set up for musical

[Andwill]

We have the chance to put on a production of Les Mis at school. For previous productions we have had 10radio mics for main performers and then some reinforcement across the front of stage. We were thinking that we might need greater reinforcement and I’m looking for suggestions for mics to do the job and possible placement.

[paulears]

This comes up fairly often. Being realistic, mics across the front of the stage - of any kind - only work when the performers make lots of noise. It is all about signal to noise, with signal being the kids and noise being the PA. The really scary thing is when you save the faders up to the point just below the take off, and discover that while the people are acting and singing, muting the mics makes no difference. Boundary mics, flown mics and even shotguns are not much good if the kids don't make enough noise. Radio mics being on their lips almost are the only practical way to get whispers heard, but often people say they are not enough. The usual problem is that they do not have a decent operator who follows the script and has good hand/eye coordination. So many school productions have the faders in a row and assume that is it. 

Often, if you are using distant mics, adding more reduces dead spots but does not produce more volume.

[sleah]

1 hour ago, paulears said:

This comes up fairly often. Being realistic, mics across the front of the stage - of any kind - only work when the performers make lots of noise. It is all about signal to noise, with signal being the kids and noise being the PA. The really scary thing is when you save the faders up to the point just below the take off, and discover that while the people are acting and singing, muting the mics makes no difference. Boundary mics, flown mics and even shotguns are not much good if the kids don't make enough noise. Radio mics being on their lips almost are the only practical way to get whispers heard, but often people say they are not enough. The usual problem is that they do not have a decent operator who follows the script and has good hand/eye coordination. So many school productions have the faders in a row and assume that is it. 

Often, if you are using distant mics, adding more reduces dead spots but does not produce more volume.

I've about 30 odd years of doing exactly this, albeit almost all in the same venue and also agree with everything Paul says. Although I've had some reasonable success with small shotguns (no, not that type! 😁) along the front of the stage. For them to work best the director needs to try and block it so those that need picking up can be close to the mics - only really an option for like the junior panto or nativity though.

I think I understand the physics, but based on what many others have said, I say to people that the more static (as opposed to body worn) mics there are, the lower the volume will be. You can get away with 3-4 stand mics on a 7(ish)m stage used as I describe, but 5+ would be pointless. As you add mics, your gain-before-feedback drops hence less volume.

Dangly mics are less use for re-inforcement, they need to be so physically low to pick up little Johnny that they will become a visual eyesore and also risk being knocked, plus the additional challenge of cabling from the ceiling... Fantasic as a permanent (out of the way) install for recording 😊

If you don't have an operator who can give 1000% concentration on following the script, riding the faders whilst also watching the stage and expecting the unexpected, then don't even get the mics out of storage! My method is to mark the script using the channel numbers, which also match the mic numbers which are cross-referenced to the characters. Play by numbers. It's reasonably fool proof until they start to adlib 😂

Edited November 8 by sleah

[Robin D]

52 minutes ago, sleah said:

 😊Play by numbers. It's reasonably fool proof until they start to adlib 😂

Or two or more cast do a costume change and swap packs. 🫣

[sunray]

1 hour ago, sleah said:

I've about 30 odd years of doing exactly this, albeit almost all in the same venue and also agree with everything Paul says. Although I've had some reasonable success with small shotguns (no, not that type! 😁) along the front of the stage. For them to work best the director needs to try and block it so those that need picking up can be close to the mics - only really an option for like the junior panto or nativity though.

I think I understand the physics, but based on what many others have said, I say to people that the more static (as opposed to body worn) mics there are, the lower the volume will be. You can get away with 3-4 stand mics on a 7(ish)m stage used as I describe, but 5+ would be pointless. As you add mics, your gain-before-feedback drops hence less volume.

Dangly mics are less use for re-inforcement, they need to be so physically low to pick up little Johnny that they will become a visual eyesore and also risk being knocked, plus the additional challenge of cabling from the ceiling... Fantasic as a permanent (out of the way) install for recording 😊

If you don't have an operator who can give 1000% concentration on following the script, riding the faders whilst also watching the stage and expecting the unexpected, then don't even get the mics out of storage! My method is to mark the script using the channel numbers, which also match the mic numbers which are cross-referenced to the characters. Play by numbers. It's reasonably fool proof until they start to adlib 😂

I agree with all of this and Pauls comments.

In one particular event I used 4 danglies, one was different to the others. During rehearsals the script was marked with mics to be used (running all up was no good due to gain before feedback), however during rehearsals the director had noticed the difference in performance of the odd mic for the bassier character and flipped the stage for one part, took a few seconds to realise what had happened then had to remember the cues were wrong.

[GR1]

Just as important as the equipment is who is going to operate it. As has been said you get a poor result if you try to leave a row of microphones on at a set level. You have to use line by line mixing so that only the microphone picking up what the director wants to hear is on at any level. Also the cast have to stick to whatever blocking the director has set and not adlib.