using ETC colour source desk, fixtures and dimmers

[iamere]

Hi all. I was recently working at a venue where they have installed a 24 channel ColourSource thrupower dimmer, a ColourSource20 desk and numerous ColourSource pars and spots. Nothing was working in the venue. the desk looked like it had been wiped clean somehow but no one was quite sure how. The whole system is a bit new to me. 
It seems to me that each of the dimmer sockets were not live. So any of the lights plugged into a dimmer socket were not on, so I was not able to read what DMX address any fixture had been set to.

I know this is coming down to me not understanding how to configure this correctly, so excuse my ignorance.

I'm used to simply plugging a lantern into a socket, getting power, plugging it into the DMX line and configuring everything how I want it.

However, I was unable to work out how to do this on this system.

 

The only way I could work out how to actually turn a fixture on (get live power to it) was to turn assign a DMX number to the dimmer output, and then turn on that output at the desk.

Then I could go to the fixture and have a look at its settings.

I couldn't work out how to turn the dimmer channel into a permanent power supply.

 

I tried switching all of the outputs to "always on" at the dimmer end, but still no joy!

 

In short, I want the 24 outputs on the wired bar to be live power like I would normally find them.

The trips are all up. I cant work out why they are not live. 

 

I know I'm missing a trick.

I'm hoping somebody here can tell me what my silly mistake is. 

Edited November 1 by iamere

[James Remo]

The thrupower rack can be set up as dimming or relay, and won’t output power till it sees a DMX signal in either case. I’ve not used one but I’d imagine that always on should set the relays to be on, but if you were in dimmer mode last that might not work. A work around may be to press the far right button (test mode) and set all channels to 100%, which should turn on the relays. Be careful, you don’t want to use dimmer mode to power the lights, as this can damage them. 

The individual coloursource relays are great, very useful for switching practicals and mirrorballs, or for turning on and off fixtures remotely. They only can be set via RDM though, which can complicate things if you are not used to that, but also stop people who don’t know what they are doing from playing with them and changing addresses and settings. 

 

[iamere]

Thanks for your response.

I did actually set one of the channels onto relay to try that. 

I can hear the relay come on when I bring up that channel on the desk.

And that does indeed then turn on the power to the light.

 

The problem I'm finding with that is that if the lighting channel is at zero, the relay is off and the power to the light is off,

then when I bring up the channel, the relay kicks in, the light starts up and yes, it does come on.

But I have to wait each and every time I want to use the lantern.

3, 4, or 5 seconds each time I bring up a light?

It doesn't come up when I pull up the channel as the first thing it needs to do is power up.

Is that what has to happen each time I want to use a light?

I has to be powered it on and off each time I'm using it?

 

I just find it confusing as with all my own lanterns, I simply plug it into the mains

and dim it as I want via DMX.

 

What is the benefit of powering up and down the lantern each time?

It just seems like a really slow process

[sunray]

5 hours ago, iamere said:

Thanks for your response.

I did actually set one of the channels onto relay to try that. 

I can hear the relay come on when I bring up that channel on the desk.

And that does indeed then turn on the power to the light.

 

The problem I'm finding with that is that if the lighting channel is at zero, the relay is off and the power to the light is off,

then when I bring up the channel, the relay kicks in, the light starts up and yes, it does come on.

But I have to wait each and every time I want to use the lantern.

3, 4, or 5 seconds each time I bring up a light?

It doesn't come up when I pull up the channel as the first thing it needs to do is power up.

Is that what has to happen each time I want to use a light?

I has to be powered it on and off each time I'm using it?

 

I just find it confusing as with all my own lanterns, I simply plug it into the mains

and dim it as I want via DMX.

 

What is the benefit of powering up and down the lantern each time?

It just seems like a really slow process

Can the dimmer pack be programmed to turn the relays on when DMX is present?

In other words you turn the lighting desk on, the pack senses the presence of DMX and powers up the light fittings. At that point you will be in the same position you are used to except the lights are automatically powered down when the desk is not in use.

[James Remo]

The idea of the system is not to use the same DMX address of the light you want to control as the switching address. For instance, the addresses for the relays (and you want to be using them as relays if the lights are DMX controlled) would be patched to higher numbers that could be fired as a cue that stays on for the length of your performance, and then turned off only once your show is complete. Turning fixtures on when you want to use them will result in a power up delay before they come on. 

[sunray]

2 hours ago, James Remo said:

The idea of the system is not to use the same DMX address of the light you want to control as the switching address. For instance, the addresses for the relays (and you want to be using them as relays if the lights are DMX controlled) would be patched to higher numbers that could be fired as a cue that stays on for the length of your performance, and then turned off only once your show is complete. Turning fixtures on when you want to use them will result in a power up delay before they come on. 

I was going to suggest that, however a global blackout...

[James Remo]

Patch as non-dim, not affected by grand master, nor blackout

[sunray]

55 minutes ago, James Remo said:

Patch as non-dim, not affected by grand master, nor blackout

That seems to be the solution then, I don't know the desk or its operation.

Edited November 3 by sunray

[Tomo]

Thrupower rack circuits can be configured as dimmers (eg for tungsten lanterns) or relays for DMX fixtures like the CS Pars & Spots.
Make sure the circuits powering the DMX fixtures are configured to one of the non-dim modes - I'd suggest Relay.

The manual is here:
https://www.etcconnect.com/Products/Power-Controls/Distributed/ColorSource/ThruPower/Documentation.aspx

If you're using Relay, then on the ColorSource Console the 'non dims' are the "Independents" set as on/off toggles to control the power.
They are independent of everything else - Masters, playbacks etc

There's two of them, and you can patch any number of DMX to each, eg to use one as rig power and the other for 'something else', or to split the rig power into two, eg if you have some moving lights that need a power-cycle to reset.

Powering the fixtures down between shows saves energy and can lengthen the life of the electronics (assuming you don't sit there toggling it).
By default they'll turn off the relays a few seconds after the console is turned off/hibernated, so avoids accidentally leaving the whole rig powered when there's nobody there.

[iamere]

Thank you to everybody who replied. You've been super helpful

@Tomo I think I understand but I will just write it here for clarity if that's ok.

In keeping with what @James Remo also mentioned about the non dims needing different DMX addresses as the fixtures, here's what I believe to be the summary

 

I can set all the outputs on the thrupower (1 to 24, corresponding with number on the pre wired grid) to be 'relay' activated, as there are only LED's in the grid

Patch Independent 1 to switch on DMX addresses 1 thu 24 and activate that Independent

Then I can address all the lanterns starting from 25 onwards

 

Does that sound correct?

[James Remo]

That sounds correct

[iamere]

15 hours ago, James Remo said:

That sounds correct

Thank you...

Going to put all this into place next week. Appreciate everybody's time and effort