D.I. Boxes

[dfinn]

Hi,

 

Today we had a mini talent contest at out school and it was a ver quick setup with 3 vocal mics and some guitars. I have some D.I. boxes so thought why not and used 3 of them on 3 separate channels to allow 3 guitars to be played though the PA with no need ot mess around with amps and mics etc.

 

It worked fine and ive always been told to only D.I. the bass and mic up the amps of other guitars? Why is this?

 

I mean the guitarists can still use a speaker out on them to link up to their amps and dont their fx units go between the guitar and the amp/ D.I. anyway?

 

Thanks.

 

Daniel

[Andrew C]

LOTS of this before, but in essence;

 

If you DI the guitar, you get only the "dry" sound, that is, with no effect from the guitar amp/speaker. The guitarist will be using the distortion inherent in the amp/speaker as part of "his" sound. Hence the normal practice of micing the cab, and maybe running a DI as well.

[Ilthigore]

I think it's because the amplifier is a key part of a guitarist's sound, with guitar amps being fairly coloured in their frequency response. Bassists don't care as much about sounding exactly right.

 

That's just pedantry though - DIing alot of people people shouldn't cause a problem, as long as you give them some EQ and they have distortion pedals, etc.

[dfinn]

Ah ritey, its not a problem I just wondered.

 

Shame it isn't a standard really as my theory is the less mics on stage the less feedback, the less mixups, the less stress and angry band members.

 

Well thats how I see it.

 

Thanks,

 

Daniel

[chris999998]

Shame it isn't a standard really as my theory is the less mics on stage the less feedback, the less mixups, the less stress and angry band members.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd have to agree, although I think that to some extent you have to do what the artistes want, often the sound engineer's job is to amplify the band's sound, this could be interpreted to mean keeping them happy with amps and mics.

 

Also, don't forget less unhappy punters - they don't like feedback much either.

 

Chris

[dfinn]

Ah yeh forgot the punters, ** laughs out loud **.

 

Thanks,

 

Daniel

[J Pearce]

In my experience guitarists use the sound of the speaker as part of their sound, thus when electric guitars are DI'd from their FX pedals it tends to sound tinny plasticy and generally awful.

 

In general I mic up guitar amps, with a SM58/57 depending on what is available.

 

Bassists, however, tend to keep their sound quite clean and punchy, so the DI sounds a lot better than mic'ing a cabinet. this is partly due to many mics not having a deep enough frequency response to pick up the low frequencies a good amp/cab and guitar chuck out.

 

I have worked with a couple of bassists, and one has a HUGE stage amp all custom built by his dad. It sounds awesome, but when mic'ed loses its punch. I usually DI him after his preamp. Another has a cheapo Peavey thing, which sounds chronic so I DI him straight from the guitar.

 

These solutions keep me and the guitarists happy. Each situation requires its own solution, and this is the art behind being a good engineer.

 

Oh 'eck, I've rambled....

[chris999998]

Oh 'eck, I've rambled....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But all the information you've shared is greatly appreciated, it's good to hear other people's views on these things.

 

Chris

[Russ]

If the guitarists are cool with it, and I've got enough kit (and time), I do tend to DI the guitars as well. You don't have to use it.

 

As I've said before it depends a lot on how much artistic input you have with the band though - you can do a lot of stuff with the clean DI input as well as the mic.

 

Having said that, one of the main effects a guitar amp has on the sound from a guitar is lowpassing it: essentially the driver in the cabinet is intentionally bad, so if you're working with a DI'd input you'll almost certainly want to use a midrange lowpass.

[dbuckley]

Without going into pages of why the guitar, effect, amplifier and speakers should be treated as a single instrument that makes a racket, there are all DI solutions possible, the two I have are the ADA Ampulator and the Boss GX700. You can add an appropriate DI into the speaker chain, such as the HotPlate. But you cant just plug a fuzzbox into a DI and expect it to sound anything this side of really really horrible. Unless your PA is a Hiwatt 200W and a pair of 4x12 columns...

[J Pearce]

My opinion exactly. The amp is part of the instrument, don't bypass it!

 

Had great troubles when playing at Disneyland paris explaining to the engineer that the guitarist needed his amp for FX, as the french engineer had patched him to the DI then his amp. Talking tech in another language can get interesting.

 

The main thing is to find a solution that keeps all parties happy, which may involve a compromise.

[charlyfarly]

I mic and DI my guitarist using a hughes & kettner red box. You can DI after the FX chain without it sounding tinny as it has 'speaker emulator' circuitary.

[Ilthigore]

It depends how important the amp is to the guitarist I guess. At school, many bands are using amps they wouldn't normally use, and so often they don't care if you just DI them. Then again, we hardly ever have to play backline through FOH anyway so mic-ing amps isn't an issue except for recording.

[ojc123]

We had a discussion about this before. I remain of the opinion that, in a school situation, MOST guitarists aren't that good, and/or their amplifiers usually aren't that good, and/or their understanding of what their amp is for isn't that good. We now DI from an Ashdown and Laney line out. No sound from the guitar speaker, it all goes through the PA. Sounds good and is controllable.

 

Just do what works for you and meets your needs. Be aware that in a different situation miking up may be necessary or preferable. Have fun and experiment, that's what it's all about.

[Ilthigore]

Work at a school. Responsible for sound and lighting in school because I understand Ohms Law and have a screwdriver.

I like it. If only I had a screwdriver....