Basic desk for school drama studio

[sleah]

I'm looking for a desk that students can use, preferably not PC/Mac based, that can be programmed with a theatre cue stack (that's a must) - which rules out most of the cheap 'stage lighting' desks you find on Amazon/Ebay - for use primarily with LED PARs and a couple of generics. Preferably under £2k and not physically huge.

Current front-runners are ETC Colorsource 20 and Zero 88 FLX S24, the Zero88 being a good bit cheaper from Stage Electrics than the CS.

Am I missing anything else without a big budget or overly complex?

 

Edited October 9 by sleah

[kerry davies]

I am a million years out of date but when I wasn't I would always go with Zero 88 with students because they were more likely to meet up with them again, they were relatively straightforward and as you say "a good bit cheaper" so were more appropriate for impoverished former students wanting kit.

[Stuart91]

Perhaps see what your local venues are using? Might be useful for any pupils looking for shifts in future if they're already familiar with the house console. 

[Don Allen]

If you are looking for an industry desks then etc is the way to go but out of your budget. My three recommendations in summary are;

FLXS24 - use a laptop with it to get the external monitor. Phantom ZerOS is a bonus for students doing production studies. Excellent support and training videos.

ColorSource 20 AV - has sound effects and videos installed, good for scenery - only 20 faders and poor fixture file support.

Stage CL - worth looking at, only 24 fixtures, has stack and scenes playback - poor fixture file support.

[kgallen]

Just a note on the FLX S24, in the next ZerOS software release, 8.0, which is in Beta at the moment, the S24 will get 4 universes-worth, i.e. 2048 DMX channels, plus 96 fixture support as standard. The console has two physical DMX sockets (both 5-pin XLR), so other universes will require an ArtNet or sACN node to take in ethernet and break out to DMX ports. On the current software version, 7.14.3, the default S24 is 1U/512 channels and 48 fixtures.

S48 doubles similarly and the "full" FLX becomes 8U as standard (was 4U).

So don't go paying extra for a 2U console or channel upgrade if you can wait a couple of weeks until ZerOS 8.0 comes out as a production release.

Also you can do syntax on the S24/S48 if you plug in a USB keyboard.

Edited October 10 by kgallen

[indyld]

5 hours ago, Don Allen said:

If you are looking for an industry desks then etc is the way to go but out of your budget.

There are huge swathes of 'industry' that never see an ETC desk. The brand just has a tight grip on some sections of the theatre business, and the CS is nothing like the theatre desks.

The other way to look at it is that learning 'the ETC way' is very little use in all those parts of the live and recorded performance industry that use all the other desks, most of which have a lot in common. 

To the OP, the FLX is the answer really. The others are OK but don't beat it, for my money. I know of some Colorsources (that were favoured by ETC lovers in the purchasing chain) that have turned out to be disappointing once the dust settled. The FLX would have been better suited, but it came down brand over sense.

Edited October 10 by indyld

[Don Allen]

In Australia FLXS desks come with 2 universes standard, have done for a while. I guess it is a quiet feature upgrade ?

I have done the lighting design in a theatre last week for Kiss Me Kate, that has an etc ION, the FLXS48 would have been quicker and easier to use for the show, especially for colour selection. I use a eDMX PRO to get 4 universes from my FLXS48.

[kgallen]

8 minutes ago, Don Allen said:

In Australia FLXS desks come with 2 universes standard, have done for a while.

S48, which you have, seems to come with 2U as standard, but S24 has 1U and 2U off-the-shelf options (based on what I see on Stage Electric's website). Both will be 4U default from ZerOS 8.0 (which will be irritating for you as you've paid for a 2U->4U upgrade on your S48!).

8 minutes ago, Don Allen said:

I guess it is a quiet feature upgrade ?

I guess quiet-ish at the moment as the software is at beta, not production, but it was announced openly on the Forum for 8.0 (or 7.15 as it was named at the time!).

https://www.zero88.com/forum/topic/10175-zeros-7143-released-and-zeros-715-coming-soon/

 

[sleah]

Worth knowing about the FLX update 😊

The FLX is actually more than adequate for what we need, we already have an Element and a CS 20AV that can be used in that space should it be needed for a one off.

I just wanted to be sure there was nothing else similar lurking that I'd missed.

Thanks all, that's all realy useful advice. 👍

[ninjadingle]

Alternative idea - would the Chamsys QuickQ series fit your needs? QuickQ 10 is around £1600, QuickQ 20 around £2500 (both inc. VAT so if you're exempt that might be cheaper!)

Both do cue stacks and should have enough room for your rig - I've not used them so cannot comment on ease of use but if it's as easy or easier than MagicQ then I'm sure it'll be simple eough?

[Stuart91]

I've only had limited time on a QuickQ - there's one in a venue I work in.

It's very different from MagicQ. I find it a little fiddly, possibly because I'm used to Avo. There are probably more similarities to the FLX series. 

[indyld]

2 hours ago, Stuart91 said:

It's very different from MagicQ. I find it a little fiddly, possibly because I'm used to Avo. There are probably more similarities to the FLX series. 

I agree. As a MQ user, am barely happier to see a QQ than I would a Jester ML. I don't begrudge the QQ fitting into the parts of the market it aims for, but it's not for me. The FLX, however, I've walked up to and had doing stuff in minutes. Function for what it is and ease of use are where the range excels, maybe it's a familiarity with similar paradigms (Avo, etc.)

[paulears]

The key factor is very often not the usual technician, teacher or keen student but the rest. Most lighting controls are just too hard if the key people are missing. A technically dim teacher can manage with ‘jim’ who always does lights, or a technical support person, but when those people are not there, other staff and students hate it! 
 

the people who can do it, can work any sensible control, but even zero88 controls so popular in education were beyond many. I like magicq but only when there are piles of faders that work when turned on at the plug. Magicq on a pc is fine for tech savvy folk, but the typical dance teacher? Nope. A few of course, but so many schools have a bit of tape with “these ones” as a label.

 

I recommended two controls and a merge box for many education installs, a proper control for the experts, and a really basic turn on and work fader type for other users of the space. Very often programmed with white, red, green and blue labels and nothing else. Not even expensive. It was used far, far more than the real control.

[Glyn Edwards]

2 hours ago, paulears said:

I recommended two controls and a merge box for many education installs, a proper control for the experts, and a really basic turn on and work fader type for other users of the space. Very often programmed with white, red, green and blue labels and nothing else. Not even expensive. It was used far, far more than the real control.

Amen

 

[DrV]

3 hours ago, paulears said:

 

...I recommended two controls and a merge box for many education installs, ...

You don't even need a merger - a 2 pole changeover switch would do the job.