Titan Mobile?, MagicQ?, or ???

[dzx]

Short version:  I'm looking for some advice/recommendations on purchasing a control surface/console.

Long version:  Starting with my situation/needs.  I work part-time here-and-there as an LD....occasionally for national acts and some "big names", usually at small to medium sized venues and festivals.  This is NOT a full-time thing for me, but more of an one-off job now and then as I have enough knowledge and skill to pull it off when needed, but I'm by no means super experienced nor up to date on the latest tech, and although I am doing actual professional work it's still essentially a part-time thing for me.  And a fair amount of the time, the work is for smaller local acts, community based theatre, and amateur or "semi-pro" gigs.

Most of the time, the gigs are concerts and music shows (from rock to classical to folk to country etc.), but I also do a decent amount of theatre work and things like seminars and such.  Also most of the time, I use whatever console the venue happens to have and quite frankly they are often much more suited to theatre work rather than concert gigs.  I most often work at a limited number of venues, all of which have existing built-in fixtures (about 50% fixed dimmers, 35% 7-30 channel LED color changers, and a small amount of movers....though the amount of movers and such are increasing).

What I'm wanting to do is purchase a console of my own, that I can pre-build show files into for the venues I most often work at, and that I can "practice at home" on.  This will allow me to do a few things.......... learn and build my skills, have way more "looks"/cues/subs/effects ready to go before I even get to a gig, be more prepared ahead of time, get more comfortable with things that might take me too much time to deploy during an actual show, and to just stay fresh between times when I'm actually working gigs (which can sometimes be more than a few weeks).  And then when I "power up the console" at the gig itself, I'll be using something that I'm more comfortable, and more capable, on. 

With this in mind .......... these are a few bullet points of what I'm looking for in a console:

* Portability..........it's got to be something relatively compact, easy/simple to travel with, and quick to set up.  This will NOT be a "house console", and will pretty much always be on the move.
* Visualizer ........ It's got to have a decent visualizer engine, as I'll likely be training/programming/playing with the majority of the time NOT plugged in to actual fixtures (meaning at home, or away from the actual venue in question).
* Concert focused ......it should be oriented more towards concert-use and busking type gigs, as opposed to theatre work.
* Capacity/Capability ...... most of the time 2 universes is plenty, but it would be good to have more "room to grow" of course.  And right now I usually have less than half a dozen moving fixtures to control, but again I want to have more capability than that to allow growth. 
* Cost Effective ............ yeah, this is of course always a factor, but in my case it's a little tricky.  On the one hand, I want/need something that is capable of quality/professional work (and reliable too!), but on the other hand since I'm not working full-time in this capacity it doesn't make economic sense to buy something super expensive either.  I'm absolutely thinking that at the very least I would be buying something used, and perhaps even a bit "dated".  In any case, there is no real need, nor is it economically realistic, to buy the latest and greatest tech at full pop retail pricing. 

Two rigs that I've had some experience with recently seem to fit the bill so far.  Both are PC-based and incorporated decent sized touchscreen monitor(s).  Both were completely up to the task of producing good shows at the venues I'm working at (and both with some reasonably "big name" acts).  From what I've seen, if I found a good used deal on either of these set-ups, I think I'd be happy with either.  They are:
******* Avolites Titan Mobile, coupled with a Mobile Wing
******* Chamsys MagicQ PC Wing, coupled with an Extra Wing

So with all that in mind, my question to you all is:
 Would you recommend going with either/or of these rigs, and/or do you have any other suggestions that might be better options?
Any comments, advice, suggestions, tips, warnings, and encouragement relating to this would be both welcome and appreciated.

thanks in advance,
dzx

[timsabre]

Those are both great options for what you want to do. You will probably get strong opinions from people who think Avo is amazing and Chamsys is rubbish and vice versa, but really it's down to what you are most comfortable with. Personally I've spent a lot of time with Avo and I can get good results quickly on an Avo system, Chamsys takes me a bit more time, but I know people who are the other way round. Chamsys will run on MacOS, Windows or Linux, Avo is Windows only, if that makes any difference to you. The Chamsys option probably works out a bit cheaper. The Avo Titan Mobile is discontinued now and has been replaced with T3 / T3 wing which is functionally identical but lighter weight and more modern design, some people think it feels a bit lower quality than the TM though and there's lots of TM's available 2nd hand.

Both Avo and Chamsys have built in visualisers but I would consider buying the full version of Capture to run on a separate laptop/PC as it's much easier to set up the stage than the built in vis and you can also do plot printouts / screenshots for clients or your own records.

You should also consider MA OnPC as I would say the majority of tours/shows are using MA and it is a useful skill to know. It's a lot different from Chamsys and Avo though.

Edited August 15 by timsabre

[indyld]

Avo is Windows only.... Lack of OS options is as good a reason as any. 

Edited August 15 by indyld

[timsabre]

48 minutes ago, indyld said:

Avo is Windows only.... Lack of OS options is as good a reason as any. 

You can get a suitable Windows laptop a lot cheaper than a similar Mac though. If you are already a mac person or a Linux fan then that's a good reason for Chamsys. Apart from that it makes no difference operationally. Which have you used more, which did you get on with better?

 

[Stuart91]

1 hour ago, indyld said:

Avo is Windows only.... Lack of OS options is as good a reason as any. 

I'm a fully signed up member of the Mac fan club, but I can understand why software like this is Windoze only. I'd far rather have properly functioning, well-tested software on one OS, than half-baked software with issues available on multiple platforms. 

(This isn't a dig at Chamsys by the way, if they can manage it successfully then more power to them.)

It's a similar scenario when remote apps are only available for iOS, not Android. 

[indyld]

55 minutes ago, timsabre said:

You can get a suitable Windows laptop a lot cheaper than a similar Mac though. If you are already a mac person or a Linux fan then that's a good reason for Chamsys. Apart from that it makes no difference operationally. Which have you used more, which did you get on with better?

 

Choice. Simple as. The option to choose.

Also, for teaching I prefer to use a software that is available to anyone whatever their OS.

MaqicQ works fine for me on Linux and Mac. No doubt fine on Windows once you get over the OneDrive nonsense and whatever else Mr Gates wants you to endure today, but I dunno coz I don't use it.

Edited August 15 by indyld

[indyld]

14 minutes ago, Stuart91 said:

(This isn't a dig at Chamsys by the way, if they can manage it successfully then more power to them.)

Chamsys desks literally run Linux....

[timsabre]

44 minutes ago, indyld said:

Also, for teaching I prefer to use a software that is available to anyone whatever their OS.

 

We will have to disagree on that. Like it or not, a lot of the lighting world runs on Windows (either upfront or hidden inside a console). A lighting person who can't operate MA or Avo because they don't like Microsoft will find themselves a bit limited, in my opinion. The OS used is not high on my personal list of important features....

[Stuart91]

1 hour ago, indyld said:

Chamsys desks literally run Linux....

Yep, I'd just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't implying Chamys software was defective simply because it's available on multiple platforms. I don't have much experience of Chamsys at all. 

The point remains that it has to be easier and cheaper to develop for one platform rather than many, especially when it's not exactly a mass market compared to more mainstream applications. 

 

39 minutes ago, timsabre said:

The OS used is not high on my personal list of important features....

Exactly. I'd rather the development resources were put into feature improvements etc. rather than porting to multiple platforms. 

I agree that the OneDrive nonsense is annoying (along with anti-virus, automatic updates and other OS related stuff). I've tended to treat the computers running lighting control etc. as single-use appliances, dedicated to the one task. So they aren't on the internet, no other applications, and have as much of the bloat turned off as possible. 

[indyld]

MA software has a Mac version, and the console runs on Linux. All of these consoles are basically the same, so learning one doesn't exclude being able to learn the other. 

Avo is written for Windows only. 

No doubt the concept of choice isn't important to everyone, but it is to some so worth bringing up given everything else is much of a muchness.

[dzx]

For what it's worth on the OS debate and how it relates to my particular situation.........

I already have a Windows laptop that I would dedicate to this use if I go this route (and it's already got ETC/Eos and Avo/Titan software already on it).  Also, I'm not very familiar/comfortable with Mac.
So, for me personally, this debate is pretty irrelevant..............all it's got to do is run on Windows.  I do understand and appreciate that choice of OS may be a big consideration for others though.

 

 

[James Remo]

To look at it from another perspective, I would go with the control surface that works for you. If you do command line style programming the chamsys PC wing is not for you, as having to use the keyboard of a laptop is not preferable to having the buttons you require under your fingers. I find the titan mobile faders too cramped, and the flash buttons being above the faders doesn't suit my operating style. 

I personally have both a titan mobile and a chamsys stadium connect, and the connect is my first choice in most situations. Universe count, ease of programming, ease of jumping between wings and full desks, software support, all other good reasons. I have touchscreen windows laptops with both of the wing setups, but being able to patch and program blind on my daily drive mac on the flight / drive to a gig makes chamsys much more flexible and user friendly to me

[dzx]

So, please bring me up to speed on the whole Martin M2Go/M2PC and Obsidian NX Wing deal.  These are essentially the same consoles and software, no?  And am I correct in that the Martin offerings were discontinued and the platform then became Onyx/NX?  

I ask because there does seem to be a decent number of used M2Go/M2PC consoles available at pretty good prices, and they seem like they might be a good option for my needs?  Should I be considering going that route?

[dzx]

8 minutes ago, James Remo said:

To look at it from another perspective, I would go with the control surface that works for you. If you do command line style programming the chamsys PC wing is not for you, as having to use the keyboard of a laptop is not preferable to having the buttons you require under your fingers. I find the titan mobile faders too cramped, and the flash buttons being above the faders doesn't suit my operating style. 

I personally have both a titan mobile and a chamsys stadium connect, and the connect is my first choice in most situations. Universe count, ease of programming, ease of jumping between wings and full desks, software support, all other good reasons. I have touchscreen windows laptops with both of the wing setups, but being able to patch and program blind on my daily drive mac on the flight / drive to a gig makes chamsys much more flexible and user friendly to me

This is good information for me.

I am definitely way more comfortable with physical faders and buttons under my fingers, and usually avoid touchscreen/keyboard control whenever I have a choice.  Especially "on the fly".  Touchscreens (and keyboards) absolutely have their place, and for many operations they are much more efficient and "better".  But whenever I have an option to do something via screen/command line OR by grabbing a fader/knob/button I generally go for the physical interface every time.  

And programming ease, software support, online training/tutorials, and versatility are important considerations for me.

 

[indyld]

I would not go the MPC route as, although other things may also be discontinued (like Titan Mobile), the stable is at least still in the market. Sure, Onyx is around but is fairly niche compared to others mentioned. 

If you are looking to keep costs down, you could go with either used Avo or ChamSys wings from previous lines and still be happy. Or pick up the newer shinier things: some might say an upgrade in terms of the MQ offerings, a downgrade in terms of the T3. But I don't have any skin in that game.

I can use all the desks in this market and still think ChamSys is unbeatable in terms of value, scalability, and utility. But it's just a personal choice that doesn't matter much one way or the other as long as you can use the desk in question. 

 

Edited August 15 by indyld