Noise levels from stage monitors.

[roland-h]

This kind-of follows on the noise at work wake-up call topic from a coupl eof weeks back but I thought it worth raising as a new topic.

 

A musician on stage during a gig with a wedge capable of producing (conservatively) 106dBA at 1m, so that’s about 100dBA at the performers ears.

Add to that non-coherent coupling of other nearby monitors, backline and so on easily taking the spl to 110dBA. Now although the backline and the drum kit is out of the hands of the monitor engineer a good proportion of that ‘noise at work’ is under his/her control.

 

110dBA puts the listener over second action level in under five minutes! In days gone by this was just the risk that went with ‘rock & roll’, but these days it is somewhat different and I’m waiting for some poor monitor engineer to get landed with a lawsuit because ‘he didn’t tell me that I was damaging my hearing’. I am seriously considering putting a warning next to the monitor desk next time I’m out doing a gig like that. And a disclaimer that says the backing vocalist pointing an SM58 into the wedge and giving us a lovely blast at 2.5kHz is not my responsibilty!

 

And let’s not be so naïve to assume that in-ear monitoring solves the problem – it can make problems with hearing damage worse! The only thing is does do is put the final responsibility for monitoring level back with the wearer of the IEMs thus taking it away from the engineer but the ‘you didn’t tell me’ argument could still stand.

 

Does anybody else have any comments on this one?

[david.elsbury]

If you can't get the levels down, due to (having to get the monitors over) drums or backline, then in my opinion earplugs are the way to go. Muso's ones, that attenuate all frequenies fairly evenly. Such as the http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.aspx Etymotic Research ER-20's. They apparantly attenuate about 20dB and my pair make concerts, and monitor engineering much easier and more enjoyable. Check out some of the earplug threads on here for more info. That takes your level at the musicians to between 80-90dB. Much safer. You can even, if you get custom moulded ones, get like 30dB ones.

 

Or isolate the amps- put them offstage, in another room if possible. And get a plexiglass shield for the drums? Or an electronic kit (yes, I know full well that it's nowhere near the same as a real kit, but sometimes it's an option to get the stage level down *anti-flame suit*)

 

Anyway, just some ramblings.

David

[Mr.Si]

It's an interesting one, this, isn't it?!!

 

I hate this subject, because it's a complete confilict between my out of work hobby/job and my day job (Acoustics and Noise Control)!

 

Musicians by the nature of their employment are likely to be bringing this effect on themselves, and for someone like eminem, who's online stage levels, be it a considerable amount of low/bottom end, it's gonna be that high because he's spec'd it.

 

I'd agree that we as sound engineers should put some sort of disclaimer saying "musicians expose themselves to the sound levels they ask for, at their own risk - for more information, talk to your engineer responsible for your stage monitoring"

 

Alot of Rock "musicians", or just people who can play electric guitar in the rock style, think that turning up their amps loud will make it sound best and won't have anything else, and when I've done sound for school gigs etc, I end up turning them down, then the next band comes on and sets his/her levels (turns it up) and it goes out of our control again!

 

The engineer can only do a certain amount based on their control - if the musician has turned up their amps or whatever, then they may be too high to control the level of. - it's something I am always fighting against.

 

If ya see what I'm trying to get at... !

[roland-h]

My question has less to do with earplugs and more to with lawyers! If public can now successfully sue promoters for hearing damage http://www.psa.org.uk/newsarticle.asp?newsid=13

 

then it isn't going to be long before musicians (or their managements) are on it too. It is about shifting the burden of responsibility onto those asking for 'more level in me wedge' and away the one who's balancing GBF to deliver it.

 

I know the MU have been on the case for orchestras for years now - hence the often seen screens behind cellos and violas to reduce the impact of the brass section. But I don't know where stage monitoring issues are going and I suspect that no one will until some poor engineer finds out the hard way. I am just wondering if we aught to start thinking about it now.

 

Like all such matter the key is education and I feel most for the young bands who are already monitoring at levels so loud I can't stand them from 15m away!

[Simon Lewis]

My question has less to do with earplugs and more to with lawyers! If public can now successfully sue promoters for hearing damage

then it isn't going to be long before musicians (or their managements) are on it too.

 

Under HSAW 1974 there is a shared responsibility to ensure safety.

 

Band members / their management have a legal duty to assess the risk from noise. To put the blame on you doesn't absolve them of their duty...!

 

However, if you provide them with the necessary information, they cannot say "we didn't know".

 

There is the issue that you are creating a working environment that exceeds the first or second action level for that day, but unless you are touring, you won't know if it's exceeded for their working week. Therefore, you have a duty of care to ensure their safety.

 

I know the MU have been on the case for orchestras for years now - hence the often seen screens behind cellos and violas to reduce the impact of the brass section.

Is that a noise level issue, or just the recording boys trying to get some separation? ;-)

 

Like all such matter the key is education and I feel most for the young bands who are already monitoring at levels so loud I can't stand them from 15m away!

 

I get my year 2 undergraduate students to check their own hearing via an audiogram. A sizeable percentage already have noise induced hearing loss - some almost qualify for industrial disablement benefit! It's a valuable wake up call, and whether we agree with the law or not, hearing damage is taking place.

 

Simon

[J Pearce]

The orchestra screens are there for preventing hearing damage.

A trumpet/trombone can push very high SPLs at the high end of their range.