Flash pot alternative - ideas sought

[TimmyTee]

Greetings one and all and thanks in advance for any ideas or suggestions.

 

We're an am-dram outfit, English-speaking near Barcelona and we're prepping for our Christmas pantomime, Aladdin.

 

The director wants an effect for when the genie appears and the obvious answer would be pyro, FLASH BANG SMOKE and there he is. But, I really don't want to use pyro for safety reasons including some of these for starters:

• Loads of kids on stage
• Inflammable materials all around
• Lack of experience and confidence
• lack of personnel - I'll be busy missing sound cues and kicking the lighting guy who doesn't understand the dialogue
• Possible legal and/or permission issues
• budget
• And so on

So, my question is what alternatives are out there? There are three instances in the script, but if we can find a simple solution, we could give him one more in the walk down at the end.

 

I've looked up old flashbulbs for cameras and am considering triggering them from a simple battery circuit and a push switch, but will it be a big enough flash? Being a child of the 70s, I remember messing with a flashcube and nearly blinding myself as a kid. Wire those together and get four times the flash at once?

 

I also thought about several electronic flashguns and triggering them all at once, that may be an alternative.

 

I'm going to forget about the smoke, apart from the fact that it isn't instant enough, someone stole our fog machine, we've still got the liquid though!

 

The genie himself will be a responsible(ish) adult and could operate it himself.

[timsabre]

Vertical fogger (like a co2 jet simulation) can work for this, I've used them for panto entrances. For example Chauvet Geyser. They make quite a dramatic whoosh noise as well which helps with the effect. Edited September 14, 2021 by timsabre

[TimmyTee]

Vertical fogger (like a co2 jet simulation) can work for this, I've used them for panto entrances. For example Chauvet Geyser. They make quite a dramatic whoosh noise as well which helps with the effect.

 

That's a nice idea, the whoosh would be nice. We'd have to look for local hire as the budget won't run to buying one. Well, it would but I have higher priorities!

 

I'll run it past the director. Thanks.

[Brian]

You don't even need a vertical machine. An ordinary smoke machine and a right-angled bit of drain pipe will do the trick.

[Ynot]

some of these for starters:<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);">

• Loads of kids on stage - Pyro can be easily managed if you apply the responsible safety rules and have an operator trained in how to do it all safely. (see note below)
• Inflammable materials all around - To be perfectly honest if that is the case you probably need to take a proper look at your flame retardency protocols. Most things CAN be treated so that the risks of problems arising are reduced/mitigated. And one effective modification can (should) be distance, anyway (from ANY cast or set piece).
• Lack of experience and confidence - That one is an easy (ish) fix - find and attend a Just FX pyro safety course.
• lack of personnel - I'll be busy missing sound cues and kicking the lighting guy who doesn't understand the dialogue - I'll give you that one - pyro is NOT something that really should be the responsibility of anyone but the stage manager or qualified crew member.
• Possible legal and/or permission issues - Not quite sure what you mean here? In the UK there's no licensing required (though many of us feel there SHOULD be...) but as you're in Spain you may have different rules there. But you might need permission from whom? The venue? Parents...??
• budget - That also can be a problem but as I keep telling am-dram companies all the time - budget should NOT be an issue if you plan your events properly in advance, working out a reasonable expectation of what costs you'll incur, then calculating your ticket pricing to not just cover the costs but actually start to make a profit from around a 50% full house on the day(s).

As for the point about not having a smoke machine (if you decide to go that way, hiring is always your friend - hire something that will fit your needs - eg a theatre scale machine (doesn't have to be big and fancy) and probably specify fast-disperse smoke fluid rather than regular stuff that will hang around too long.

Flash guns, btw - NOT really a good idea. I know several people who've tried this idea and ALL of those have abandoned it pretty quick. :)

Now the shameless plug. If you DO have a stage manager or someone willing to do pyro on the show, there's a safety training course being run in my venue in Nuneaton on Sunday October 3rd.

PM me if you want details.

:D :D :D

[Stuart91]

there's a safety training course being run in my venue in Nuneaton on Sunday October 3rd.

 

OP is near Barcelona. :** laughs out loud **:

 

 

 

I'd agree with the vertical fog suggestions, our machines have been used for this type of gag plenty times.

 

Some models have built-in LEDs around the nozzle, which means the smoke can be coloured.

 

 

The genie himself will be a responsible(ish) adult and could operate it himself.

 

Some models have a wireless remote that the genie could operate. I'd normally be worried about range etc. with an audience's-worth of mobile phones, but it'll be triggered when he's just a step or two away so there shouldn't be any problems.

 

The alternative is to run it via DMX but that will require quite careful cueing.

[TimmyTee]

Thanks for the various responses, some good points raised.

 

As I get older, I get more responsible, or maybe just more of a scaredy-cat? As a group, we were wary of going down the pyro route and the more I read, the more it confirms the decision. We are the typical all-hands to the pumps set-up with everyone doing various jobs, even the cast gets involved in set changes. Quite honestly, the idea of us with anything more explosive than a party popper scares the **** out of me.

 

I'm not sure what the legislation is here, but I know none of us are even remotely qualified to handle this. Here is a translation of something I found in the rules for a talent show

 

"Fire or smoke effects, crackers containing gunpowder and laser lights are prohibited. No objects may be scattered on stage during the performance, it is forbidden to stain, mark or damage the stage.

In accordance with Royal Decree 137/1993 on the Regulation of Weapons, it is strictly forbidden for participants to use firearms, metal weapons and other blunt objects or imitations which, due to their characteristics, could lead to confusion as to their true nature, in their parade. It is also forbidden to use elements that are dangerous for the physical integrity of people, such as pyrotechnic and inflammable material. Only imitations of weapons made of plastic, cardboard and other materials that are not dangerous for either the contestants or the public will be allowed. It is forbidden to bring liquids or glass on stage."

 

What? No Christmas crackers?

 

There are some very strict laws here in some areas, then a complete lack of legislation in others. If you fancy a laugh, check out the health and safety in a local tradition, Google CORREFOC it means "fire-run" or BALL DE DIABLES "devil´s dance" you'll probably be left asking what the foc?

 

I've done an online search and as far as I can see, stage pyro falls into 2 categories, T1, not very dangerous, must be over 18 and T2, only for use by experts. The T1 rules are along the lines of "read the instructions, make sure they're suitable for indoor use, respect the safety distances marked on the item".

 

Regarding budget, we usually manage to make a small profit on our Pantos, it's the least profitable of all our events, but we view it as a chance to blow all the profits we make on other shows. One big factor though, we're currently up against Covid restrictions that limit us to 60% capacity, any hike in ticket prices would risk pushing them to beyond what the audience would bear. Hopefully, that restriction will be lifted come December.

 

Back to the tech side, yeah the flashguns was my attempt at lateral thought, the flashbulb idea could work though.

 

As for smoke machines, our now stolen fogger was pretty rubbish, it was hardly spontaneous, that's about my limit of experience of these from an operating perspective. However, I'll be getting my hands on a couple on a show I'm doing at the end of this month, I'll use it as a further learning experience.

 

How about this idea? A C02 fire extinguisher? I can get a 2kg one for 30 to 40€ which should give us a few puffs as the genie enters SR. Any thoughts?

[sunray]

Thanks for the various responses, some good points raised.

 

As I get older, I get more responsible, or maybe just more of a scaredy-cat? As a group, we were wary of going down the pyro route and the more I read, the more it confirms the decision. We are the typical all-hands to the pumps set-up with everyone doing various jobs, even the cast gets involved in set changes. Quite honestly, the idea of us with anything more explosive than a party popper scares the **** out of me.

 

I'm not sure what the legislation is here, but I know none of us are even remotely qualified to handle this. Here is a translation of something I found in the rules for a talent show

 

"Fire or smoke effects, crackers containing gunpowder and laser lights are prohibited. No objects may be scattered on stage during the performance, it is forbidden to stain, mark or damage the stage.

In accordance with Royal Decree 137/1993 on the Regulation of Weapons, it is strictly forbidden for participants to use firearms, metal weapons and other blunt objects or imitations which, due to their characteristics, could lead to confusion as to their true nature, in their parade. It is also forbidden to use elements that are dangerous for the physical integrity of people, such as pyrotechnic and inflammable material. Only imitations of weapons made of plastic, cardboard and other materials that are not dangerous for either the contestants or the public will be allowed. It is forbidden to bring liquids or glass on stage."

 

What? No Christmas crackers?

 

There are some very strict laws here in some areas, then a complete lack of legislation in others. If you fancy a laugh, check out the health and safety in a local tradition, Google CORREFOC it means "fire-run" or BALL DE DIABLES "devil´s dance" you'll probably be left asking what the foc?

 

I've done an online search and as far as I can see, stage pyro falls into 2 categories, T1, not very dangerous, must be over 18 and T2, only for use by experts. The T1 rules are along the lines of "read the instructions, make sure they're suitable for indoor use, respect the safety distances marked on the item".

 

Regarding budget, we usually manage to make a small profit on our Pantos, it's the least profitable of all our events, but we view it as a chance to blow all the profits we make on other shows. One big factor though, we're currently up against Covid restrictions that limit us to 60% capacity, any hike in ticket prices would risk pushing them to beyond what the audience would bear. Hopefully, that restriction will be lifted come December.

 

Back to the tech side, yeah the flashguns was my attempt at lateral thought, the flashbulb idea could work though.

 

As for smoke machines, our now stolen fogger was pretty rubbish, it was hardly spontaneous, that's about my limit of experience of these from an operating perspective. However, I'll be getting my hands on a couple on a show I'm doing at the end of this month, I'll use it as a further learning experience.

 

How about this idea? A C02 fire extinguisher? I can get a 2kg one for 30 to 40€ which should give us a few puffs as the genie enters SR. Any thoughts?

CO₂ works well for this job, contact a testing service as they often have some that need to be recharged and may be happy to let you discharge them on their behalf. This hails from a casual comment when our extinguishers at work were tested and I was left with several on the promise I'd drop them at their workshop after the show. A big advantage of CO₂ is the speed of dispersal and the second is the loud sound.

[Ynot]

there's a safety training course being run in my venue in Nuneaton on Sunday October 3rd.

 

OP is near Barcelona.

 

You'd be surprised - we had 2 people from Belgium fly over for the second course we hosted....

[Stuart91]

You'd be surprised - we had 2 people from Belgium fly over for the second course we hosted....

 

Fair enough. TBH I'd be far more likely to go to Barcelona than Nuneaton for a course, especially if someone else is paying...

[Junior8]

How are you getting him/her on for the reveal?

[TimmyTee]

How are you getting him/her on for the reveal?

 

Nothing spectacular, he just enters SR. I'm now thinking a bit of strobe with the fire extinguisher and a possible sound effect.

[gareth]

A panto I worked on for many years switched a few years back from pyro to non-pyro effects for the DS fairy/genie traps. It was a mistake, if you ask me. We tried CO2 effects and Geyser smoke machines in various configurations, and with various lighting/laser additions to try and make it a bit more punchy, but nothing does the job in quite the same way as 'proper' pyro.

[sunray]

A panto I worked on for many years switched a few years back from pyro to non-pyro effects for the DS fairy/genie traps. It was a mistake, if you ask me. We tried CO2 effects and Geyser smoke machines in various configurations, and with various lighting/laser additions to try and make it a bit more punchy, but nothing does the job in quite the same way as 'proper' pyro.

I have to agree.

 

How are you getting him/her on for the reveal?

 

Nothing spectacular, he just enters SR. I'm now thinking a bit of strobe with the fire extinguisher and a possible sound effect.

Try one first then decide if you need a SFX.