Covid vs Haze

[J Pearce]

Right at the very start of the pandemic there was some talk about haze and it being either bad or good, depending on who was speaking. I'm not interested in trying to use haze as a preventative measure, but I do have a livestreaming show coming up what wants to use haze.

Does anyone have any good sources that can substantiate whether the use of glycol type haze/smoke fluids are likely to present an additional risk for transmission of covid? I've seen other shows using haze, but 'everyone else is doing it' is not a good statement in a risk assessment...

[indyld]

Our place has currently banned all use of smoke/haze based product in the venues, citing that there is not yet enough known about it and that product manufacturers are unwilling to give concrete answers due to the relative novelty of the situation. It sucks, but when I looked very briefly into it, I didn't come across anything that I could wave at them to able to fire the hazer up again. I know that facilities management are very keen on air changes in all spaces in general, even more so than usual.

 

I didn't get as far as delving into any of the industry bodies thoughts on the matter.

[J Pearce]

That's where I'm at Rob, well one step back. We have a rather thorough H&S dept, and if I can't back something up with solid documentation that says someone else will take the blame (read lawsuit) it isn't going to happen at the moment. I'll ask the ABTT and if they come up with anything I'll repost it here.

[Brian]

For indoor spaces there is a lot of talk around having lots of air changes as being one of the mitigations against transmission.

 

We all know that lots of air changes does not make an environment suitable for haze.

[David Ripley]

About the only solid bit of advice I've seen is the BFC Shooting guide:

 

'When considering the use of atmos/smoke, discuss the use requirements with the manufacturer in advance to help assess any potential COVID-19 related risk' Section 28 f Special FX

 

Full doc here

 

Early versions said don't use haze as it suspends particles and this would include CV but further work has been done. Good ventilation should also be used in any case, including ensuring air is not recirculated

 

David

[gibbothegreat]

I've been struggling with the same issue, and various sources came up with these resources:

 

a statement from one manufacturer basically saying it's fine, no further mitigations needed https://looksolutionsusa.com/faq-for-fog-haze-and-covid-19/

 

A report all but saying 'haze is the new vaccine' https://www.asepo.org/FogSafety

 

 

and a rather more cautious report from some safety consultants which essentially says 'it's up to you, pal, there's no obvious risk, but there isn't very much to tick the box proving there isn't very much risk...' https://www.firstoption.group/what-s-new/news-posts/fog--haze-machines-and-covid

 

 

Based on the above, we've decided to go ahead and use it.

 

 

 

[Ynot]

I'm still struggling with the fact that there are some schools of thought (and not a small number of new 'businesses' that have sprung up as a result) that claim the hazing of buildings is a sound method of sanitising a room that will last a week, or a fortnight or.....

 

My (laymen's) thoughts have always been that like any sanitisation, it's effective only until the next person with any infectious element puts a hand on or coughs onto a surface...

 

 

 

 

[J Pearce]

Thanks for the links thus far folks. The ABTT have thus far said that they're not formally advising anything beyond their usual COP on smoke and haze. They have said that one of their H&S advisors will get back to me though, so there may be more info to come.

[Andrew C]

My (laymen's) thoughts have always been that like any sanitisation, it's effective only until the next person with any infectious element puts a hand on or coughs onto a surface...

 

We had a demo back in the spring of a fog offering. The guy said that the stuff they use has a "dwell time" of several days when it is still active.

 

Being in a Science department, we needed to find non-flammable hand sanitiser, and the stuff I found claims it remains effective for 4 hours. (I assume not if you wash your hands in that time though)

 

[ImagineerTom]

I'm frankly amazed no one so far has started up a service taking smoke / haze machines into buildings as a way for them to test and document what the building airflow and turn times are - never mind theoretical computer models with a smoke machine and a gopro set to timelapse you could provide absolute answers and documented proof.

[kerry davies]

If asked I would advise very strongly not to use anything which encouraged aerosol particles to circulate or hang around. That is the present consensus on how Covid is spread, hence masks, ventilation etc. But .....

 

This is the bit I look stupid. If this is a streamed event using cameras and lenses is it not possible to add "haze" in the manner of soft focus? OK the beams won't be anything like hazed but creative camera angles might satisfy that aspect partially.

 

Back in the day there was a company that did do airflow modelling with smokers, Tom, but they did it to determine how many machines they needed to totally blank out the building as a burglar/anti-theft device. The company gave us one on permanent loan for an outdoor stage and it couldn't be left on auto, the output was awesome.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. look what I found! DNA smoke machines.

[MarkPAman]

I've heard tell of a machine built to fill a fjord with "fog" for a film shoot. Apparently it was the size of a large shipping container, had a large 3ph generator built in, and used over 5 litres of fluid per minute.

[ImagineerTom]

Smoke Cloak spun out of JEM back when I was loosely involved with them. Those were some spectacular machines mostly because of how small they were.

 

MarkPAMan - the original Jem Roadie was a powerful beast https://www.graysonline.com/lot/0547-5020146/audio-tv-and-home-theatre/industrial-smoke-generation-mobile-jem-roadie-415-volts-plug-in-1000mm the original design specification for it was something along the lines of "make something that can fill Wembley stadium with smoke"

[Ynot]

On the smoke cloak idea, it would be interesting to see what residue their smoke would leave.

Even some glycol machines will leave something if the space is saturated...

 

Yes, no theft would be preferred to any theft, but what about potential cleaning of a whole factory worth of gear...?

[J Pearce]

Thanks all. FWIW they're after the beams not the hazey look, so soft focussing isn't the answer alas. We've decided not to risk upsetting/spooking the H&S dept, so are going without. I'll update here when I hear back more from the ABTT. Edited November 11, 2020 by J Pearce