mac.calder Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 We use a lot of dry ice low lying fog, and were wondering if anyone had any experiance with a device like this or this. I don't know where we source our dry ice from, but I know it ends up costing quite a bit, and was wondering if something like this, over a few years would work out cheaper. I am guessing we would only use about 1lb per performance, maximum, and something like that would save on storage, shipping and handling, so judging by those figures, we could get at least a weeks worth of performances from a single 50lb cylinder instead of making 5 to 10 trips down to wherever they get it from. We have always been given pellets, so the whole block thing wories me - does it make much difference having that smaller surface area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I dunno but it looks nifty. Suppose it depends on the cost of the liquid gas (which I assume isn't that expensive because CO2 is used for a lot of things). To change block dry ice into pellets you can just put it in a plastic bag and whack it with a stick and it'll shatter like ice :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Looks fine, check out the prices of the cylinders and their availability near you, then work out how long it will take you to save enough to pay off the purchase of the kit. Actually I guess there will be an Aussie supplier. Make sure the instructions are clear for your successors to be able to continue using the kit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 The frost stick looks like it makes it in a pellet/powdery form which makes a bigger surface area- meaning more low fog effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac.calder Posted June 4, 2005 Author Share Posted June 4, 2005 The frost stick looks like it makes it in a pellet/powdery form which makes a bigger surface area- meaning more low fog effect.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah - I added that link after the post, so the first link is what that post was actually talking about. The frost stick is dirt cheap too, but only has a 45% efficiancy rating. You can make blocks of dry ice with an 'optional extra'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfrostic Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 The frost stick looks like it makes it in a pellet/powdery form which makes a bigger surface area- meaning more low fog effect.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah - I added that link after the post, so the first link is what that post was actually talking about. The frost stick is dirt cheap too, but only has a 45% efficiancy rating. You can make blocks of dry ice with an 'optional extra'.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually 45% is the physical limitation for the maximum amount of Liquid CO2 that can be turned into dry ice. (in any dry ice making process...) The rest of the CO2 turns to gas as it compensates for the triple point temperature. The only way to get more efficient is to capture the gas while making the dry ice and recycle it. This requires a very expensive enclosure, pump and cooling system (20 to 50 K USD) A full 50 lb tank of liquid CO2 will make about 14 to 22 lbs of dry ice using the Frost-Stick Dry Ice Machine. Other machines (small block, etc) are less efficient as they attempt to use tank pressure to compress the snow into a semi-solid block. Dry Ice snow is different from Block dry ice in that it is less dense and floats instead of sinking to the bottom of a hot water tank. It must be weighted down or held under so that it is completely submerged. Dry Ice snow can be mechanically compressed using a hand hydraulic press (Still expensive) with up to 20000 lbs pressure. You will then have block dry ice. Dry Ice snow in a fog machine tends to cool the water down quickly and usually requires an electric heating element inside the tank to keep the temperature up to the best fog production temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonHirsh Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 seeing as I can buy dry ice for $1 cdn per pound and I need lets say 50 pounds for an effect for the night and it costs $50 and no time off my back seeing as they deliver versus having to make it and if it takes a min or two per pound then we are looking at a min of 50 min to make the amount I need I earn about 50 to 75 dollars an hour depending on the gig so this dry ice insted of costing $50 now costs $100 and I have to add the time to buy or rent a tank pick it up and refill it, all in all it seems like a extremly bad idea to me if you are trying to save money if you want to do it cause it looks cool in the video then do it for sure I know I would JH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Hi, I'm not sure what your health & safety regs are like, but over here a liquid CO2 tank and accessories require safety inspections (it's a pressurised container) and careful thought would have to be given to storage, exhange bottles, accessories etc. Also, there's the problem that an overheated bottle will vent - so it's best to store outside or in an area that won't build up CO2 and asphixiate people. It's not overly onerous, (and some of this is carried out by the gas supply company) but it is another set of things to plan and do... Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaspipe58 Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Don't forget the cylinder rental. It's not cheap. At school we pay about ten times more for the rental than we do for the gas. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonHirsh Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 seems pointless to me then I would say keep to buying your dry ice. there is a reason why there is a dry ice manufacturing industry because if it was cheeper or easier to make it your self people would and then mass production plants would close down. support local dry ice manufacturing. JH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfrostic Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 seems pointless to me then I would say keep to buying your dry ice. there is a reason why there is a dry ice manufacturing industry because if it was cheeper or easier to make it your self people would and then mass production plants would close down. support local dry ice manufacturing. JH<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually I would agree, IF you are able to get solid block dry ice easily and cheaply there is no reason to make your own, especially if you are using it for fog. You will use an entire 50 lb block of dry ice in one performance most likely and getting it directly from the bulk tank plant either in snow, (which is very common) or block form makes more sense than making your own. The Frost-Stick system was designed primarily for Hunting and Fishing camps, shippers who would use it a couple of times a week and for those of us who are more than 35 miles from the nearest source of Dry Ice. We also sell many of them to the Medical Industry and Aircraft and turbine maintance facilities. (they use them to shrink bearings for installation) In storing Dry Ice you should typically count on loosing 10 lbs per day, If you only use it once or twice per week, your cost goes way up from storage loss, which is one of the best reasons to make your own as you need it. We will be the first ones to say, "If you can get it nearby cheaply then by all means do so." The whole point of the Frost-Stick Dry Ice Machine is to allow people who have logistics or scheduling supply problems to make their own Dry Ice on Demand when they need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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