viktor92 Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 I am looking for an outdoor low fog machine. I made a test with Antari DNG 200. For indoor use is perfect, but for outdoor the fog disappear very fast and machine is overheating. Please advise. Many thanks.Viktor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 The whole point with pretty much ALL low fog - whether it's traditional dry ice or cooled smoke - is that the way the fog lays low is that it's (a lot) cooler than the ambient air temperature. I note that you're in Dubai, so on the assumption that this is where you're looking to try to achieve the effect the outdoor temps there year round are not going to be conducive to getting anything to stay cool enough to give you the dry ice effect. That's just a matter of simple physics. I did see a machine at PLASA last year that did seem to use a different method of creating low fog that wasn't reliant on temperature, but for the life of me I can't recall the product name, nor can I find the brochure I took away. But I do recall it was rather an expensive box of tricks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 You will not get a low fog machine that can work outdoors for anything more than a few second. Even with blocks of dry ice in Dubai temperatures you would still struggle to get anything that lasted more than 5 seconds. The machine you saw at plasa (and various other similar water based low fog units recently released) still use a temperature difference to make the "heavy" fog (all be it via a totally different technology) and the fog produced it still very delicate so is ruined by slight winds or thermal uplift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 The machine you saw at plasa (and various other similar water based low fog units recently released) still use a temperature difference to make the "heavy" fog (all be it via a totally different technology) and the fog produced it still very delicate so is ruined by slight winds or thermal uplift.Actually I'm not totally sure it was a temperature based fog. It's been a year since then, so memory isn't quite clear. But I do recall the exhibitor said it was very different in that it used a mixture of water and their ingredients that made the fog molecules heavier by adjusting the mix. That way they could replicate heavy fog, regular fog and produce low hanging clouds at a definable height - something that as far as I'm aware isn't feasible with any other machine, and he demonstrated VERY effectively whilst on the stand there. It was a VERY impressive machine, despite being tucked away on a very small stand in a corner of the mezannine level at PLASA. I do have their brochure somewhere - if I find it I'll post details. That said, even with that sort of control I'd seriously doubt it would be mega effective in the great outdoors in Dubai.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 There was JEM’s HOT technology about 20 years ago which could do what you described (though wasn’t real world practical) and the more modern versions which might be described at UUT technology and are the systems currently sold which use “just water” and a new type of generator. They all use heat and cool to create the smoke and make it exist in a certain plane - none of theme use a massive aluminium heater block and a truck sized refrigerator plant like traditional fog systems but they are still using the manipulation of extremes of temperature to create the effect and as such are still (all be it on a lesser level) susceptible to temperature changes when they are being used & entirely destroyed by air currents/winds as would be found outdoors. Dry ice is the only technology that has any hope of working outdoors but even that would struggle - check out the YouTube videos of someone chucking dry ice in to a swimming pool; it creates the effect the OP wants but even a 1kg block lasts only seconds and there’s almost no control of how the “smoke” behaves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandall Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 The company were MT-Electronic of Himberg, Austria, www.mt-electronic.com, on Stand V2 - I spent some time on the STLD stand next door & my feet kept vanishing !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 The company were MT-Electronic of Himberg, Austria, www.mt-electronic.com, on Stand V2 - I spent some time on the STLD stand next door & my feet kept vanishing !!That link doesn't work, though it's the same link from the PLASA 2018 site for the company...But yes that certainly sounds like them. The PLASA write-up for their stand reads: The patent AQUA LOW FOG VARIO machines from MT-Electronic produces low fog without CO2, dry ice, or a chiller, creating continuous, optimal low fog, even at high ambient temperature (tested at 37°C / 98°F). It is a patented system with very low operating cost and easy handling. To produce 10min. low fog with Co2 will cost round € 100,--! With our AQUA LOW FOG VARIO only € 3,-- ! Fog output and height is adjustable, and the system runs via DMX as standard operating mode, in which the pump, fan, and water mist can be adjusted separately.Which does indeed separate them from the traditional methods of creating fog by results.And their claim here to be able to produce the effect in up to 37 degrees C isn't surprising given what the guy talked to us about last year. And no, Tom, I'm NOT saying that it will survive outside or in the extreme temps of Dubai - just that this is a different fog generator that from what I saw in 2017 really should be challenging ALL of the low foggers on the market (and I couldn't figure out why it hasn't already).When I was there at PLASA one of my co-visitors was one of the senior techs from the Royal Opera House who was similarly amazed by the controlability of such an effective lo smoke device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 We've looked in to the HOT technology and the current UUT variation technologies - they are all amazing in theory but just don't quite cut it in terms of practicality which I'm fairly sure is why they've never broken through. The technology is basically a fancy version of those garden pond foggers - using very high frequencies to smash molecules about creating tiny amounts of intense heat and making vapours; changing the frequency (and the chemical mix ratio) changes the density of the vapour produced which gives the ability to change the level it wants to settle at relative to the air in the room. The resonators are surprisingly fragile and really do have to be considered a consumable (I can't see them surviving being chucked off the back of a truck on a tour) and they all seem to have some variation of a "tray" of fluid with an air gap above it and the resonator positioned fairly precisely between the two as the primary method of generation. If the auto top up fails, if the unit gets moved suddenly so the liquid sloshes around, if it's loaded in a flight case and tipped (even potentially just to roll it up a ramp) you end up at best with a unit that takes a while to settle down and at a worse a unit which runs dry and has liquid leaking out of every corner. We've had units to play with (not specifically the plasa one) and the last one didn't make it past a week of testing before we had given up on it. I can see them being viable in tightly controlled situations like theme park attractions/shows but until the practicality issues are nailed we won't be seeing them in anyone's touring stock for ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart91 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Plenty people have pointed out the problems of trying to use low fog in hot conditions. We had the opposite problem last Christmas, when it was cold enough that the machines couldn't cool the fog below the ambient temperature. It just wafted around like regular smoke. Thankfully it was just a frill and not vital to the show, so nobody was particularly upset but definitely one to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Probably the simplest way of finding out whether they work in tropical heat is to work in conjunction with the makers of the machine. If they are successful, I'm sure they will want advertising photograpy of the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 The company were MT-Electronic of Himberg, Austria, www.mt-electronic.com, on Stand V2 - I spent some time on the STLD stand next door & my feet kept vanishing !!That link doesn't work, though it's the same link from the PLASA 2018 site for the company...But yes that certainly sounds like them.Just had a reply from them - their web site had been hacked so they're offline temporarily whilst they sort it. The company were MT-Electronic of Himberg, Austria, www.mt-electronic.com, on Stand V2 - I spent some time on the STLD stand next door & my feet kept vanishing !!That link doesn't work, though it's the same link from the PLASA 2018 site for the company...But yes that certainly sounds like them.Just had a reply from them - their web site had been hacked so they're offline temporarily whilst they sort it.Though they did also send the specs and a price list for their models: AQUA LOW FOG VARIO 2 € 7.595,--AQUA LOW FOG VARIO 3 € 7.995,--AQUA LOW FOG VARIO 4 € 8.695,--AQUA LOW FOG VARIO 6 € 9.995,--AQUA LOW FOG VARIO 8 € 12.595,-- Glaciator X-stream lists between about 10 and 12k depending on supplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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