Sound Limiters

[Uncle Harvey]

I need to fit a new sound limiter into our community building. I am looking at 'Castle' Electronic Orange. I am told this is a 'Market Leader'.

[timsabre]

It's probably the best known of such units. There can be all sorts of trouble ahead though, many people will have their "electronic orange" horror story of having power cut off mid-event.

 

Perhaps you could give us some background to why you need it?

[paulears]

Unless required by the local authority as a result of complaints and potential licence restrictions, by far it's best to have somebody in charge who has the clout to tell people to turn down, and equally turn a blind eye to tiny things as so many of these things are installed that kill the venue for acts. My band, for instance are not loud, but after a few incidents with these things where audience participation killed the power, we don't play venues that have them - when we get a booking we ask questions - stage size, power and "is a sound limiter device fitted?" if they say yes, we don't play.

[kerry davies]

So having installed something that cuts power to the PA what do you intend to use to manage evacuations with if you cannot inform and instruct people? I had one venue which was paranoid about neighbours and once the emergency exit was opened the power to the stage was cut. A dancer had a panic attack, opened the doors and we lost all sound and most lights triggering a much bigger panic in the crowd.

 

Last year at my "daughter's" wedding the band were really very good but spent the entire gig trying to stare down the display and trying to anticipate the delighted screams of the kids that pushed things to the very limit. We had a good night, they had a bad nightmare.

 

Sound limiters are way down the hierarchy and for me would be the last chance saloon of noise reduction which begins with "turn it down", as Paul says, and moves through insulation, isolation and quality control before "turn it off".

[S&L]

in practice these devices make small venues untenable for entertainment. there is no such thing as a decent one.

often EHO's will suggest these and a building operator will accept them rather than pay someone to meet and negotiate with the EHO a workable solution.

once installed, artists who visit will not have any practical understanding of how to comply without a power cut and the last thing you do with a modern sound solution is just cut the power power - that's not good. local artists talk and tend to put those sort of venues on a no-go list, the only thing worse than a bad payday is some machine unplugging you at various arbitrary points during the performance. and in practice, that's how sound limiters work.

[empyfree]

Local hotel here has the limiter... only turns off the 13a sockets round the room! 63a supply on stage is untouched...

 

But everybody’s happy because a box has been ticked. ?

[KevinE]

Formula Sound Sentry is another well-known unit.

There are much cheaper ones out there too from Soundlab, Adastra and other disco brands.

 

Owners and Administrators of buildings to which the public are admitted have a 'duty of care' and that extends to their hearing. A limiter is one way of showing they've assessed any risk to their hearing.

 

Formula Sound Ltd

[Jivemaster]

Having come across a sound limiter set to 75dB in a bar/venue, sound limiters are the invention of the devil.

[Alec]

Sound limiters are the invention of the devil.

This.

[Simon Lewis]

I need to fit a new sound limiter into our community building. I am looking at 'Castle' Electronic Orange. I am told this is a 'Market Leader'.

 

What was in the building previously?

I suspect that the Electronic Orange is probably the most infamous of the present crop of limiters. At least its present incarnation (GA904) has a bargraph which gives indication of how close to the limit the present noise level is. The original would more or less cut off seconds after the light bulb lit up.

 

Councils tend to like these devices because it's felt they give a objective solution to noise level problems. They do not want to have to repeatedly "police" problem venues.

 

Of course, the devices are pretty much universally hated. Some bands like Paul's will avoid venues fitted with cut off devices. Other users will nobble the system - taping over the noise measuring mic, getting band power from a non controlled mains socket or adjusting the mic sensitivity preset (conveniently just under a front panel blanking plug on some units). One colleague ran a PA system from unswitched power but had to fake the occasional 'no PA' in order to convince the venue that their limiter was working.

 

I have installed some systems where tripping the device simply switched on all the house lights - thus killing the club's vibe.

 

I would be a little surprised if the "needed for evacuation messages" argument would ultimately hold water. If evacuation depends upon voice messages, then that system needs guaranteed intelligibility and dependency, and is likely to be a voice alarm system - for which stringent guidelines and COPs apply (BS5839 part 8, BS EN 54:2011 etc.).

 

With regards to the issues of 'panic', the present research indicates that the commonly held views are actually false, and are largely reinforced by stereotypical media propagation. There's some very interesting work to be found on the subject here.

 

With regards as what to buy (if the OP has to do this) the Formula Sound Sentry works pretty well....

[sleah]

Yup, from hell! Says he who installed one in the community centre/youth club in 1990 where I used to DJ (yes, big hole in foot!!) and help run the club.

Move forward to 2018 and I'm now a trustee of the same community centre (no longer youth club) after being away from it for 20odd years, and I'm looking at recommissioning the said same sound limiter!

We have issues with Zumba and they like being that bit too loud at times. There is no one from the centre on site during regular bookings and hires, so no one to shout "Turn it down!".

The limiter is an ideal solution, and it won't be set stupidly low but enough so Zumba aren't taking the p*** and annoying neighbours - quite why they need to make their ears bleed while keeping fit I don't know....

 

The OP may be in a similar situation, where a limiter maybe the best solution, devilish as they are.

 

IIRC the one I'm recommissioning is an old Formula Sound unit. Control box in plant room with remote LED 'traffic light' visible from the stage. Just controls 13a on the stage area :)

[sandall]

With regards as what to buy (if the OP has to do this) the Formula Sound Sentry works pretty well....

I'd second that, but it needs to be installed (& set up) sensibly. In one of my local authority venues a local sound outfit, who should have known better, installed the unit over an exit door just in front of the AL FoH speaker, with the big warning bar-graph display out of sight from most of the stage. I'm not sure whether we actually lost any bookings, but it took an awful lot of faffing to get to a compromise setting that kept the place viable.

[Jivemaster]

The bar graph indicator must be in sight of the DJ/band etc.

[sandall]

The bar graph indicator must be in sight of the DJ/band etc.

It should be, & the measurement mic should be well away from the speakers, but "must" ??

[david.elsbury]

Who says “must”, mr Jivemaster? Care to cite your source?