New build park bandstand/stage - ideas

[cedd]

I'm after some creative ideas....

A community organisation that I'm a director of have been approached to help with the fundraising and specification of a bandstand for a local park. As a local theatre and arts group we've seen the potential for this to become slightly more than that.... a multi purpose outdoor stage..... that still looks like a bandstand most of the time!

 

The bandstand will sit at the bottom of a gentle slope, making it an ideal place to sit and watch - almost a natural amphitheatre. I foresee it being rectangular with the long edge facing the slope and "audience", with the staircase up to it up one of the sides. It'll pretty much look just like a traditional rectangular bandstand in this mode, and this will be how it's left day to day.

 

Being on a slope the base of it (concrete or brick) will be set in to the hill side, with heavy, secure access doors to get to a storage space underneath at the back. This might be used to store deck chairs and some of the additional extras that make it in to a stage... read on! I foresee it being roughly 2ft high at the audience side, and then whatever height it needs to be at the back to be level - probably around 3ft judging by eye.

 

When it needs to be a stage I foresee the railings across the front being removable (padlocked - accessible from underneath so it requires access to the storage space by key and then the padlock key to remove (vandal resistant is the name of the game!). This will create an open fronted stage. The railing will be divided in to lengths that can be a 2 person lift - however long that ends up being!

A railing on the side opposite the steps will also be removable to allow a second set of temporary steps to be bolted on, giving access to each "wing".

There will then be a set of canvas/whatever sides that can be fixed using pre-installed points (hooks, eyes, whatever) to the back and sides, enclosing the stage fully except to the front. This would then give the option for gazebos to be placed at the bottom of each staircase to provide "backstage" areas.

 

This, I hope, would give the town a really useful space. It can be used for traditional band concerts but equally could be transformed to serve as a stage for outdoor theatre, choirs, public events/ceremonies (war commemoration, christmas light switch on - that kind of thing) and other live music. Our community organisation exists to promote the Arts and also build community through organising events such as street parties, carnivals, local history tours, etc. so it fits right in to what we do.

 

The "look" of the thing should (at least as it's left day to day) be that of a traditional bandstand - wrought iron (looking!) railings etc. however I'm keen that it equally works as a performance space with minimal alterations.

 

My thoughts therefore are;

 

Roof joists are manufactured from 50mm round tube to serve as lighting bars (suitably rated by the structural engineer and architect who we have on team). No need for iwb's - this can be taped socapex etc. for each event depending on what's required - it's purely somewhere to hang stuff!

 

Space on the front uprights to mount a pair of speakers (either threaded holes to attach a pair of arms, or crafty installation of a pair of speaker pole uprights that look like they're meant to be there!). We're not talking line arrays, just a decent pair of boxes on sticks.

 

Lockable small trap doors to pass cables through from the stage in to the (hopefully dry) storage space underneath for dimmers etc. I'm potentially looking in to if we can get a permanent wired mains supply in to this space too, from the adjacent leisure centre, but it's not for definite. If I do then it'd be terminated in ceeform sockets somehow. Dimmers etc. would be hired in for each event - nothing technical will live on the bandstand or under it normally.

 

Spaces around the outside to chain/lock hardware to (generators if the above doesn't happen).

 

Facility to bolt additional steeldeck to the front of the stage to extend it (threaded holes aligned to the standard hole spacing of the decking carried by the local hire companies) and a stock of the correct sized legs and feet to extend forwards - just needs the decking hiring).

 

Possibly a duct running out underground to a manhole placed roughly where we could foresee a front of house position being, with permanently installed draw rope. This would be sealed and connected to a sump for drainage. I can only ever foresee it being a couple of cat5's, DMX and power, or maybe a small analogue multi being used. Thinking 200mm duct would therefore do nicely.

 

If I do manage to get some permanent AC to the thing then some robust and vandal proof LED working lights up in the roof (switched from the lockers underneath).

 

Some rated points in the roof for attaching.... well, whatever we can come up with in the future!

 

 

Can anybody think of any other useful features they'd add to such a space in order to make it be useful and flexible. The watch word is vandal proof and in keeping with the looks of a bandstand - until we need it not to be.

 

The community we're in isn't exactly strapped for cash, and there's local support for this including some decent sized corporate sponsors and backers, so we feel like it's a realistic proposal and that the added functionality will be attractive to the community. There are no real neighbours so to speak and the area is well used for public events already, with good support from the community, so we don't think there'd be too much backlash in terms of building the thing.

Sadly we do have problems with anti social behaviour hence the vandal proof requirement. This behaviour is actually one of the things we exist in order to combat and we'll be trying to ensure there's programming for everybody using the stage. It's currently the white middle class community that has everything - unless you're a teenager.

 

Thoughts, ideas and suggestions welcome!

[bruce]

You’ve mentioned most of the main things. Infrastructure. Mains power would be good. Places to hang things (lighting and sound). Cable routes. The ability to make it vandal-proof - so everything is either ultra-heavy-duty, or removable.

 

A different scale, both in terms of size and budget (it was over 2 million refurb costs) but have a look at http://kelvingrovebandstand.org.uk to see how the Kelvingrove bandstand in Glasgow, for many years derelict, is now a pretty good outdoor concert venue. Lots of videos on Youtube.... but the pics on the website give some indication of how it has been “anti-vandalled” - when the kit is removed and doors closed, it’s basically a bare stage....

[ImagineerTom]

This is your one chance to get the big, dull but essential stuff nailed, don't mess around with fiddly details like screw holes for steel deck.

Get a proper power supply installed (you'll save £1000 on every event on the stage that way) Whatever height roof you think you need, make it 50cm higher because it's always easier to drop bars down than raise a roofGet a FOH position installed - even if it's only a concrete pad with a cable run to the stage.Fix the site - ensure there's proper drainage at the bottom of the audience slope and ensure that the sloping ground has substance to it so that it can actually survive a few hundred people stomping on it on a muddy day. Get trees / walls / hedges installed around the site between it and any residential neighbour (even if they are hundreds of m away) - no matter how fancy your bandstand is if you start upsetting the neighbours with noise there will be restrictions quickly added to your license that could ultimately make the venue unworkable. Make sure there's proper car parking with proper paths (in a straight line) to get to the bandstand area and either fit lighting along the pedestrian route or at least instal power points along the route so adding lighting for the pathways is just a matter of plugging in. Forget chain-up points for generators & plant - that won't be acceptable to most insurance/hire companies. Either get a proper secure compound to store plant in or instal a shed-like structure that a security guard can use when stopping overnight.

 

[Owain]

Steps both sides, and a ramp at the rear. Or steps + ramp on opposite sides. It's easier and cheaper to build these once in concrete than have to faff about hiring and rigging each time.

 

Toilets, which can double as changing-rooms for small groups without the need to hire portabuildings in.

 

If you have trapdoors in the stage floor the space underneath probably won't be dry. Locked portholes in the front and side walls of the stage will probably be adequate and easier to secure and weatherproof.

 

Fixed power is a must, and have something easily accessible. 13 amp is fine for a small ensemble bringing their own boxes-on-sticks sound on a Saturday afternoon. Larger planned events can have access to the ceeforms. Also if you have fixed power you can run a CCTV camera and keep an eye on the place :-) (Even if it's local record-only and someone has to go and retrieve a memory card after an event.)

 

A parking area with power, water and sewage access for portalavvies and catering trucks for larger events

 

 

[cedd]

The park itself is already in pretty good shape - good sized car park (albeit most visitors to events we've done there have walked - it's pretty central). Well made paths that are already lit by street lights along their length. Power will be at the agreement of the council - nearest power is the leisure centre which I'm sure will have plenty of juice to spare. There will be the in's and out's of getting a metered supply from them, and who will pay and look after testing etc., but I can leave that kind of stuff to the legal people.

I'm sot sure we'll be able to get a concrete pad down for front of house - getting the manhole to cover the end of the duct is already going to be maybe the biggest point of disagreement about the whole project. I had considered similar ducts out to maybe 15-20ft out to the front left and right of the stage to allow some heavy duty wind up stands to go in for face light as well, but I think that is asking too much. The grass is normal park grass 90% of the time, so anything outside of the footprint of the bandstand itself needs to be super low key.

I do need to get one path improved - it's probably the main route from vans etc. in the car park to the stage. It's a gravel/hardcore path currently but it won't stand up to flightcase pushing. We're only 30ft away from the tarmac loading area at the back of the leisure centre, so vehicle access is pretty good.

 

The Kelvingrove bandstand is very interesting, thanks. As you say, a lot bigger than we'll ever be, but similar concept.

 

I'm just consulting with some people "in the know" in the brass band community about the physical size of the thing. 2 local bandstands have been build recently (following extensive fundraising and lots of press hype) only to be found that they're not big enough to fit a brass band on (28 players, including drum kit, timps etc.) This will pretty much set the size of the thing as it'll be its' primary function and is likely to be the largest event space-wise that'll be on the stage. I actually think the canvas sides might get used pretty often for this kind of thing too - bandstands are notoriously chilly places and it's likely the audience will gather uphill even when there's a brass band on (traditional bandstands are more of a 360 degree affair) just due to the lie of the land. I think lots of bands would be appreciative of the extra weather protection!

[bigclive]

Rather than use 50mm bar as part of the structure, I'd suggest using absolutely standard building materials so that the place goes together quickly and efficiently. Some bars can then be mounted under normal joists for stage use.

 

I'd mount the access stair at the back so that performers could enter discretely and wait in a screened off backstage area.

 

Absolutely open plan with no walls reduces the risk of vandalism. Basically a brick pillar at each corner with intermediate pillars at the back and sides if desired. Acts can then suspend weighted drapes for a backdrop if desired.

 

Definitely a power source if possible. That could be a lockable pillar with the incoming DNO cable head and meter feeding a suitable DB with a selection of RCBO protected Ceeform sockets next to it (not one big RCD) and a sensible means for cable access that doesn't involve poking cables through small sharp holes and allows the pillar to be locked. Try to make it robust and idiot proof to allow for "lesser" events companies. Another good power option would be to have a suitable cable installed internally on one of the support pillars with DB and sockets at height out of reach of disgruntled youths and protected from the elements by the roof. That gets rid of trailing cables.

 

If the stand is raised a modest height then handrails at back and sides to protect the norms and a big sign on the pillars warning about the open front and delegating all liability on whoever falls off it. No "removable" front rail system. It will by default be unfit for purpose and potentially ridiculously hard to remove and reinstall.

 

Finally, make sure that the people involved in the project are minimal, sensible and relevant so you can avoid the usual council posse of useless clipboard warriors who have nothing at all to contribute to the project except expensive incompetence and obstruction.

[themadhippy]

in the car park to the stage. It's a gravel/hardcore path currently but it won't stand up to flightcase pushing. We're only 30ft away from the tarmac loading area

Forget the shiney bits,decent vehicle access to the rear of stage is a must ,pushing flightcases 30 foot across gravel is 32 feet to far.

[xllx]

pushing flightcases 30 foot across gravel is 32 feet to far.

 

Totally agree with that one!

 

Otherwise, think infrastructure, everything else is icing on the cake.

 

Power (big Ceeforms locked away in the store) couple of 13A sockets on stage for smaller events.

Water supply

Drainage for above

I wouldn't make 50mm tube part of the roof structure, but make sure the roof is rated for extra weight by the engineers, and there is a means to pass steel wire/Spansets etc over the roof beams and under the roof.

Like the idea of the duct to FOH

Steps both sides

Ramp would be good for kit and for wheelchairs

If you can avoid the rail at the front, then do so, it will become a PITA (who removes it? special tools, bits getting lost etc)

[Dave m]

If you can't get a proper path. The concrete or grip open mat that allows grass to grow through will take vehicles Agree with a standard RSJ box , it is easy to add lighting bars on clamps afterwards. Retaining a good record of the loadings for the frame will help later

[Junior8]

Mains! Plenty of it. Also supplied to pillars around the audience area for catering etc. Ensure hard access routes to stage are rated for HGV weights. You will be dealing with architects so keep to the real essentials but insist on them. For me it would be some sort of grid, mains power, hard access and riggable as required side sheets.

[Owain]

I'm sot sure we'll be able to get a concrete pad down for front of house - getting the manhole to cover the end of the duct is already going to be maybe the biggest point of disagreement about the whole project. The grass is normal park grass 90% of the time, so anything outside of the footprint of the bandstand itself needs to be super low key.

 

that they're not big enough to fit a brass band on (28 players, including drum kit, timps etc.) ... . I actually think the canvas sides might get used pretty often for this kind of thing too

 

 

Is it possible to bury the manhole cover to the duct end 1 ft below the finished ground level, grass over it, and find it again with a metal detector on the few occasions it's required? That would probably mean it fills with water (mud) and so would have to have a new length of cable pulled or blown through it each time (or at the start of each season).

 

As far as size, bigger the better (within reason) You may start with 28 brass banders but next year have a school orchestra. Concrete is cheap.

 

For canvas sides consider digitally printed vinyl (subject to any fire regulation requirements), which is available as banners or as truck side curtains. They're pretty cheap to get done in standard sizes and popular for advertsing/sponsors. Check dimensions of what's available as it would be inconvenient having canvas mounting points a few inches too large/small for something standard.

 

 

[bigclive]

Underground ducts for cables might sound like a good idea, but they often flood and fill with mud so any cables getting dragged through end up in a bit of a mess. The draw rope will also get pulled out by someone who gets sent to do the job without being told about attaching it to the cables and pulling it through again. Aforementioned draw rope will require gloves to handle as it will be disgusting anyway.

[TomHoward]

Underground ducts for cables might sound like a good idea, but they often flood and fill with mud so any cables getting dragged through end up in a bit of a mess. The draw rope will also get pulled out by someone who gets sent to do the job without being told about attaching it to the cables and pulling it through again. Aforementioned draw rope will require gloves to handle as it will be disgusting anyway.

That was my though - given the potential for flood etc, personally I would have thought a (discreet if possible) pillar with Cat5 & power, plus DMX or analogue audio - whatever's likely to be required, and a lockable cabinet at both ends would be less hassle than a duct & draw?

[ImagineerTom]

Power will be at the agreement of the council - nearest power is the leisure centre which I'm sure will have plenty of juice to spare. There will be the in's and out's of getting a metered supply from them, and who will pay and look after testing etc., but I can leave that kind of stuff to the legal people.

This is something you absolutely need to keep on top of - get it right and your events will run seamlessly and no-one will notice. Get it wrong and you'll have tripping power, expensive generators and all sorts of hassle that will forever be a pain to sort out.

The grass is normal park grass 90% of the time, so anything outside of the footprint of the bandstand itself needs to be super low key.

Again, it's key you get this right from the start. You don't necessarily need to concrete and terrace the entire audience area BUT it is essential that you ensure the ground where the audience will be walking can take the abuse you're giving it. There's a site we recently worked on that looked like a lovely grassy field, even as we drove lots of plant over it the ground /seemed/ ok, then there was a little bit of rain and 1000 people walked over it. Because it was a sloping site the rainwater for the entire site flowed through out location, because the ground was 12 inches of topsoil over a layer of bedrock (and the land owners had never put any drainage in, despite this being a regular event space) the rain didn't soak away and once saturated the ground had no substance to it and just 1 person walking across it churned everything up. After the first day of events the site was (literally) a mudbath and the clean-up/restoration costs after the event ran in to thousands. If they'd just put some soak-away drains in across the top of the site, mixed some different grass/plants in to the soil to give it more substance and installed a concrete pad at the high-traffic entrance to the site they would have saved a fortune both on clean-up and refunded tickets.

For canvas sides consider digitally printed vinyl (subject to any fire regulation requirements), which is available as banners or as truck side curtains. They're pretty cheap to get done in standard sizes and popular for advertsing/sponsors.

In this situation any "walls" created to be hung on to the structure to box in the stage would have to comply with building regulations for structural and fire retardant purposes (still be structurally sound despite significant damage, be fire-retardant for at least 10 mins so they don't block exit routes during emergency, be able to withstand 60mph gusts) - the cheap banner and lorry siding printing materials /generally/ don't meet those standards.

[bruce]

Aforementioned draw rope will require gloves to handle as it will be disgusting anyway.

 

and even if believed to be capped, ducts (especially if near bottom of hills) often get silted up, and can make attractive homes for rats...

 

 

That was my though - given the potential for flood etc, personally I would have thought a (discreet if possible) pillar with Cat5 & power, plus DMX or analogue audio - whatever's likely to be required, and a lockable cabinet at both ends would be less hassle than a duct & draw?

 

Depending on the distance and how often it's to be used, cable ramp or a catenary may be more practical.