What lighting desks do you use?

[ttocsic12]

Hi

 

The theatre I work in has a Strand 550i as our in house lighting desk, and we're looking to upgrade it to something a bit more current. Problem is our programme is quite varied and we do everything from one night music gigs/tribute acts to dance schools to week long runs of national tours to Shakespeare. Some of these are very much lit through busking and others are done entirely on cue stacks and pre-programming. So, trying to find a desk that fits our needs isn't so straightforward.

 

To give us some idea I was wondering if people could tell me what desks you have in your theatres, if you find them appropriate for what you end up doing with them or if you think there's a better desk out there for you. I'd be interested to know what different LDs / Board Ops in your venues think of you desk (or desks) too.

 

Thanks

[Shez]

What's in your rig that you need to control? How many dimmers and how many "intelligent" fixtures of what kinds?

 

We're in a similar situation as you actually. Current desk is an LSC Maxim XXL - having loads of subs and everything instantly accessible on faders is brilliant for the even wider variety of shows that come through the door. Others will doubtless suggest ETC but for me (limited experience I confess) they're just not there for busking music shows. If Chamsys still made desks with lots of faders e.g. MQ300 I'd be all over that as they're great for busking AND have good cue stack functionality. We're also looking at the Avo Arena which of course ticks the busking box but not so much the theatre cue stacks.

 

I'm gradually reaching the conclusion that there isn't a desk out there that's particularly ideal.

[timsabre]

We're also looking at the Avo Arena which of course ticks the busking box but not so much the theatre cue stacks.

Avo cue stacks are working ok these days. They have just about ironed out all the oddities there used to be, it's taken a while. People who are used to command line/syntax desks still find it hard though.

[alistermorton]

ETC Ion+40 fader wing. As Shez says, not the best desk for busking but ETC have been making improvements to the software and it's getting better. We do mainly theatre productions but with a jazz/blues festival featuring live shows and a youth production which often ends up being largely busked on subs.

 

Prior to that we had a Strand 300 (prior to that a GSX and prior to that an M24).

[Judge]

Avolites is probably the best desk for busking and music as this is where its roots are. The cue stack functionality has been dramatically improved over the years although I dare say it is still a bit odd if you are used to ETC.

 

ChamSys still do make a desk with lots of faders and its called the MQ500 and it looks absolutely great. Had a play with it at PLASA and the hardware and new Stadium software is superb. I think this is probably the best all purpose desk around at the moment.

 

Of course visiting theatre LDs are going to be expecting an ETC. I like the Gio a lot. Or you could go crazy and get a Cobalt.

 

Whatever you do, although the price point is tempting, dont get a PC and wing based desk.

[ojc123]

Whatever you do, although the price point is tempting, dont get a PC and wing based desk.

Please explain why not. Thanks.

[Shez]

ChamSys still do make a desk with lots of faders and its called the MQ500 and it looks absolutely great. Had a play with it at PLASA and the hardware and new Stadium software is superb. I think this is probably the best all purpose desk around at the moment.

Our definitions of "lots" may vary - MQ500 has 15 faders; our current desk has 140. But I do agree that the MQ500 looks great and I'd be very happy with one. But we'd need a fader wing or two in addition for some users of the venue. Apologies for the slight hijack.

[Judge]

Our definitions of "lots" may vary - MQ500 has 15 faders; our current desk has 140.

Oh, okay, fair enough! ChamSys do make a fader wing for the Stadium giving you another 15. And another screen. Not sure if their little wings work with the MQ500 as they will be a lot cheaper. Dont see why not.

 

Please explain why not. Thanks.

 

I advised against a PC wing solution because simply there is more to go wrong. A box that has a power cable and an on/off switch is always going to be more reliable. As sson as extra components and connections are involved there is an accident or bad connection waiting to happen.

 

They are not bad per se. I have been touring a Titan Mobile for over five years and only ever had a few problems. Once the USB socket on the TM went bad, once the host PC crashed, and just recently the laptop died for reasons I have yet to discover.

As it says on the ChamSys website:

We use industrial grade processor cards and power supplies. You won't see PC motherboards and PC power supplies in the back of our consoles - PC components are designed for the mass market at the lowest cost with short lifetimes.

 

True dat.

 

Of course you can buy top end kit. But consider a Dell XPS 15" which is probably the best laptop available right now for this kind of job. Once you have the touchscreen version which is essential, and an i7 upgrade you are looking at not far south of £2k. And even then, it is not meant to be run 24/7 like a dedicated console is.

 

Plus, if it goes Tango Uniform on you, who would you rather call, PC World or Avolites/ChamSys ?

[ttocsic12]

What's in your rig that you need to control? How many dimmers and how many "intelligent" fixtures of what kinds?

 

So our 'house' rig is entirely generics and we're around 200 dimmer channels. However, we also have stocks of wash & profile movers, LED battons, starcloth & Coloursource PARs that are contra'd out regularly to shows. To give you an idea of the top end of what we have to deal with, last years panto rig for used - 16 battons, 12 wash movers (Chauvet 560z), 8 profile movers (Mac 2000s), 8 LED PARs, 10 Magicdots on top of the generics.

[J Pearce]

3 key questions to ask yourself (and your team):

 

Do touring theatre shows generally bring a desk? If not what are they generally expecting to find?

 

Do touring music shows generally bring a desk? If not what are they generally expecting to find?

 

Is there any scope for owning 2 desks - perhaps an Ion and an Avo of some flavour? Or to have a handy hire company who can hire/sub you an Avo for bigger busked gigs?

 

 

An EOS based system is incredibly flexible and the busking features are improving, but they won't beat Chamsys or Avo for busking, that said they will beat a 550i for busking. Cobalt is an interesting platform, but for me I find it to be the worst of both worlds.

 

Avo is said to have improved cuestacking features, but I still wouldn't ever choose one for a proper theatre show, maybe for cuestacked music/events, but (to my knowledge) part cues, individual fixture timing, colour paths etc are not present - please correct me if I am wrong!

 

Chamsys will do both, but cuestacking isn't anywhere near as fast as on Eos - worth considering for quickly plotting those touring shows.

 

Dare I say GrandMA? I know it will happily do both, but I've never used one in anger for long enough to have formed an opinion on them.

[Judge]

 

Dare I say GrandMA? I

 

Someone had to say it :)

[Guest]

Hello,

 

For a smaller budget I'd say have a look at Zero88 FLX. Easily expandable using Wings and 8 universes over Ethernet protocols.

I'd also recommend looking at MA dot2 for a larger budget.

Again as has been said you can't beat ETC for pure cue stack functionality, and Avo really is very good for busking. MA dot2 however in my opinion gives you both and for a comparatively small budget. There are functionalities missing which you would expect for this price point (around £6500 I believe), but worth considering.

You'd probably want the dot2 XF for more hands on fader control which I think is around £8500.

 

Edward

[ttocsic12]

Nothings really off limits brand wise - we've looked at ETC, Avolites, GrandMA or Jands at various times (hiring desks in/at PLASA/demos etc).

[Ynot]

As what you've given as standard fare is predominantly theatre I'd personally suggest you stick with a theatre desk and these days to be honest the weapon of choice is an Eos based option. If you do get something in that absolutely HAS to be busked, then hire in something more suitable if you don't think you can do it with Eos/Gio/Ion. But don't rule out using the ETC range to get you through most shows. I've busked to an extent on our Ion for various shows over the years, though never with movers involved (though I believe with some advance prep you could easily do a fair job).

That said, I'm not a huge fan of busking (mainly because I'm not that good at it! :) ) and prefer to try to plan and plot ahead for the more varied stuff we get through.

[lonemorf]

Why do I get the feeling people here don't really like MA?