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Sound levels request to go lower, then low


paulears

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Two shows this weekend for the band - one in a fairly big theatre, which looks fine, but the other getting odder and odder. To start with it came via an agent, which isn't that common for us, and was a bit vague. Terms, however were fine. It ends up being very local - in fact, so local it's weird - BUT - we don;t know who the client is, we don't know if its private, corporate, or anything. It's also at a golf course, and as we got nearer, other 'little' things started to appear. As in the fact it's outside. Then the exact times - 2 x 45 mins, which is perfectly normal - but then we discover the second set starts at 10.45. While we are no stranger to late events, this is 10.45 - outside. Our rider clearly details the 32 or 63A power retirement if we need to provide lights (which isn't a problem) - but this one came back with. Yes electricity is available, and then a request not to be loud. Did a stately home outside show last year and they got complaints from villages 8 miles away. It is Norfolk. It is quiet at night. We explain we can lower the PA volume a bit, and use Hotspot monitors on the guitar and keys mic stands, DI the keys, and drums and bass on IEMs. "So it will be quiet then?" Well, I guess quieter would be better. Turns out there is a planning application on the go, and they don't want to upset the locals - which is a road of posh houses either side of the clubhouse. Latest question is "Could you do one of those unplugged shows?" Getting silly now. The trouble nowadays for tribute bands is Facebook and youtube - camera recordings take no time to do, and you get judged on what it sounds like.

 

We should have walked from this one, but it's properly contracted and has an agent involved, so we must do it. If I had a young family and there was a band 50m away from my house at gone 11pm, I think I'd be miffed. Sounds like a problem in the making.

 

All the solutions seem to involve changing the sound, not just lowering it. The drummer can try to play quietly, but rock and roll and lounge jazz volume sounds a bit silly. It also wrecks the usual effects and strange sounds. I'm thinking that all we'll be left with is 4 mics, and no monitor speakers at all. Nightmare. I bet that even that will be deemed too loud for late at night in a fairly residential and posh area.

 

Anyone got any tips or anecdotes from similar events with unworkable noise limits.

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I'm not a sound guy but in this case I'd punt a question back to the promoter along the lines of what's the maximum volume permitted. Planning permission for noise generating venues (not just events, but industrial processes and even air conditioning plants etc) usually come with a specified maximum noise level as measured at the neighbouring properties these days - that'll at least give you an idea if it's possible or not.

 

If teh venue is reasonably new (last 5 years or so) then you should be able to view the current planning permission online at the council's website - but that varies between councils.

 

I'd suggest it's the promoter/venue that should be responsible for sorting this out as they're the one that's hiring you so it's their reponsibility to ensure they have all the necessary permissions. If you were to approach the Council for such info then in the eyes of the promoter you'd be the bad guy if you got a bad response

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Good job you don't have a brass section! Sounds like a gig which hasn't been thought through. Thing is the last set will be the one where the crowd are all tanked and want it loud. I don't suppose you could move inside the club house? .If it was me and there was no get out clause in the contract I would just go acoustic and work out a set like the recent Status Quo Unplugged with vocals acoustic guitars and Cahon for the drums.
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Thanks for the responses - the planning permission issue is for an extended car park - nothing to do with us, and contractually, acoustic unplugged versions are out when a contract has the usual term - "Perform the act as known" - so an unplugged version wouldn't be acceptable.

 

I guess it will just be a dogs dinner of a show - luckily for us, it's actually one we can't advertise - we get lots of those now - no listings on social media and websites. Mind you, with the limited info, there's not much we could have promoted anyway, and we're assuming they're not selling tickets.

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My thought would be the second set would get canned when the venue realise how loud quiet is. I'd do your favourite tracks in the first half just in case.

 

Funny enough though this week I got an advert email hiring out silent disco kit and the cost was really reasonable. Could have been a way forward if you have IEM and the audience have headsets, DI most of your kit and all you have is drums.

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Many years ago I used to play organ (that shows how long ago it was) in miners welfare and working men's clubs and it was a regular thing for the drummer to have to go onto brushes after the entertainment secretary moaned they couldn't hear to talk at the bar
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Funny enough though this week I got an advert email hiring out silent disco kit and the cost was really reasonable. Could have been a way forward if you have IEM and the audience have headsets, DI most of your kit and all you have is drums.

 

Silent discos end up being anything but silent - normally hundreds of drunken people singing out of tune.

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I would give the end client 3 options. ! Perform the act as known : 2 Acoustic set : 3 Silent gig with headphones [Drunk punters shouting out of tune ain't your problem]. Tell them these options are a never to be repeated special condition of the contract and they are liable for any issues. Then accept their decision, do the gig, get paid and go away.
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I would be checking that the venue has a premises licence that covers the times and the place involved for performance.

 

I seem to recall that when I had my pub this has to be in the defined area for consumption of alcohol and the hours that music can be played, the PRS and other licences should also be for this pre defined area.

 

Ok most venues are covered for music till midnight etc but that may just be for the clubhouse and any exterior performance may need an additional licence.

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I would be checking that the venue has a premises licence that covers the times and the place involved for performance.

 

I seem to recall that when I had my pub this has to be in the defined area for consumption of alcohol and the hours that music can be played, the PRS and other licences should also be for this pre defined area.

 

Ok most venues are covered for music till midnight etc but that may just be for the clubhouse and any exterior performance may need an additional licence.

I would agree that this would be a most sensible line to take - they have a duty as licensees to follow what's in their licence so outdoor MAY not be an option at all...

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Yes agree with the licences but when all said and done not the op's problem.

 

If they are there, setup to play a standard show then one side of the contract is covered and payment should be made. You never know if some one kicks up a stink, the story in the local rag could be good free advertising.

 

Another though could be a local millionaire's or celebrity's wedding / party who have seen them playing and liked them. That would explain the lack of info. All the posh houses may be their rich friends who are all looking forward to attending. If you have lots of money and public standing, I don't suppose normal rules apply.

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I was involved in a similar situation a couple of years ago, a marquee wedding/function venue with posh houses 400 yards away. But, the venue had blotted their copybook and I was there to monitor sound levels on the street outside the houses. The rub was that if music was audible it was too loud! Basically an impossible situation made more uncomfortable buy the venue allowing clients to book DJs and live bands without telling them in advance of the noise limits. They eventually lost their final appeal and had to remove the marquee from the site.
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A while ago my function band played a gig at a Masonic event. They had booked us for 3 sets and there wasn't time to do them all after the meal, so rather than trying to do a dance set while people are still eating (never works) we suggested doing our first set as a very gently 45 mins as people arrive at the venue: all very up market and relaxing. The organiser was worried it would be too loud. "Not at all" we responded, "we're used to this and I can assure you it will be a perfect, virtually acoustic set that will mean everyone can still talk and listen to their friends". We suggested that once we'd set up, we would demonstrate to him how quiet we could be.

 

When we were ready the drummer added a duster to his snare and took out just his brushes, the guitar and keys turned down their amps and the singer backed off the mic. We sung a song at the quietest we've ever played - we could only just hear each other. "OK" the organiser said as he went off to do something else, then turned back and added "... but it will be quieter for the real thing won't it?". As he left we all just looked at each other and agreed that such a thing wasn't physically possible! Obviously, once the room had a buzz of people chatting, we actually had to turn up a bit not down and all was well (we've done the same thing many times before so knew what we were doing) but it's tough when organisers really haven't a clue!

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I was at a meeting about a different show yesterday, and the guy chairing the meeting runs a big holiday centre. After he asked what we were doing this weekend. He turns out to be a member of the club - and all he has on his events list is private function. He handles the licenses, and as far as he is aware, no application has gone in for an outside event and it's even more of a mystery.

 

On my way shortly - so I'll report back.

 

PS - love the idea of the silent version with headphones. One of the problems is that people do sing along with the songs. The loudest was a festival last year where a huge hairy biker group were there. They were louder than the PA!

 

So my questions at the moment.

 

Will there be electricity?

Will there be a stage?

Will it have a roof?

 

If those 3 are present, it can only get better - to a degree!

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A number of years ago I did a gig in a wedding marquee which had noise issues with the local residents. They had installed a system of two EV SX300's pointing straight down from the truss to the floor. It was great very little spill anywhere
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