Source 4WRD

[Bryson]

So, has anyone seen the retrofit LED bases for Source 4s that ETC brought out this week?

 

http://www.etcconnect.com/S4WRD/

 

Thoughts?

[paulears]

About time, although the cost is pretty high, still. Good news will be that Big Clive will reverse engineer it, and reveal the secrets at some point.

 

The sceptic in me still has a bit of trouble with the notion of upgrading purely for the green factor. From a pure cost factor, the price is still a lot of lamps, and LEDs are not bombproof. A grand's worth of LED hanging on the end of a fixture costing much less still seems odd. Technology wise, being able to still use your dimmers is great, but it's a little like Arri TV kit where one selling point was the replaceable light engine - but this too cost mega bucks, but they turned it into a selling point which people bought into? I don't quite get it.

 

I'm a big fan now of LED, my posts of three years ago show me as a major sceptic back then. Surely what is needed is an LED module the same form factor as the 575W/750W lamps have? A simple mod or replacement end cover housing, and an electronics package that could hang from a hook clamp would do me. I wonder if that's the next small manufacturer step?

[timsabre]

Surely what is needed is an LED module the same form factor as the 575W/750W lamps have?

 

The problem is cooling for the LED - if you look at the "0 comparable products on the market" image at the bottom of that page you will see that most of the backend module is a big heatsink for the LED. You couldn't get a big enough heatsink in the size of the HPL lamps.

 

The other problem is optical, getting the LED emitters to fit within the filament position of the original lamp. Although they say it "is as bright as a 575W lamp" I would suspect that the focusing and flatness of the beam will be affected, especially if using gobos. It will be interesting to hear test results of this.

[Hass]

I like the idea, I suppose its a cheaper version of a Lustre. Im still not convinced by completely replacing generics with LED though. Very few LED fixtures can come close to matching a generic in look in my opinion although the ETC Lustres and Desires are coming pretty close. Iv'e Worked places that have added many LED units to their rig but not entirely cut the generics while this fixture is a strait swap out of your generic units. I'm slowly coming around to LED but I'm still not convinced that they can fully replace generics yet. (especially from a design perspective)

 

With almost all LED fixtures I find the noise they produce is the biggest deterrent, especially in smaller rooms.

 

They may be cheaper to run but I have seen plenty of LED fixtures in the £1000+ range break within a few years, get dropped, stood on or generally broken from wear and tear or misuse, especially by amateurs. Drop a £40 Par or £150 profile that is annoying, maybe blow the lamp or need to replace unit. drop a very expensive LED and that is a disaster, not only does it cost more but there is far more internals to break and it is far harder to fix yourself.

 

Of course this is ignoring the green factor Paulears pointed out.

I seem to have got slightly off topic so ill stop now.

 

 

P.s. Just watched a video on this by ETC, they also suggest replacing the lens tube with a high quality version for the best light output. If you replace the rear end and the lens tube then cost are getting close to a new unit. It's also starting to sound a bit like Trigger's broom.

[J Pearce]

Does anyone know if there are plans to make a similar S4 PAR backend?

[the kid]

Does anyone know if there are plans to make a similar S4 PAR backend?

Its been a while but I thought the s4par and 575/750 backends were all the same

 

 

I do wonder about the drop as mentioned above .. how well do they travel. Having said that I imagine ETC have done a metric tonne of R&D, no one will want the risk of a few thousand users discovering that they just burned up 20K on new LED lamps for them to break after being put in a truck.

[J Pearce]

They're not the same backend. The S4 PAR is squarer. I think the lampholder might be the same, but housing certainly isn't.

[kitlane]

P.s. Just watched a video on this by ETC, they also suggest replacing the lens tube with a high quality version for the best light output. If you replace the rear end and the lens tube then cost are getting close to a new unit. It's also starting to sound a bit like Trigger's broom.

 

I can't remember where I heard this but it has been suggested that it is because the patent has expired on the standard lens tube but not on the high quality version? Therefore there is more money still to be made on the latter but the former will be pushed out by inexpensive copies

[sguy42]

Surely what is needed is an LED module the same form factor as the 575W/750W lamps have?

 

The problem is cooling for the LED - if you look at the "0 comparable products on the market" image at the bottom of that page you will see that most of the backend module is a big heatsink for the LED. You couldn't get a big enough heatsink in the size of the HPL lamps.

 

The other problem is optical, getting the LED emitters to fit within the filament position of the original lamp. Although they say it "is as bright as a 575W lamp" I would suspect that the focusing and flatness of the beam will be affected, especially if using gobos. It will be interesting to hear test results of this.

 

To quote ETC - As bright as a 575-watt, extended life HPL lamp.

 

The extended life lamps aren't as bright in my experience as the standard ones (understandably) so it's not a straight swap for a 575W (and you can't swop in a 750W for a special if you need a little more intensity)

[timsabre]

Also it looks like (as with all mains dimmed LEDs) the mains dimming performance is not that great - they say you should only use mains dimming for "architectural or level-setting purposes", otherwise put DMX into the fixture.

[kitlane]

Someone on controlbooth.com did a shoot out. They don't look as bright as a 575W.

 

linky

 

The application that interests me but doesn't get much of a mention is in situations where limited power is available E.g. village halls or exhibition centres where each additional 16 Amps costs the GDP of a small country.

[Hass]

P.s. Just watched a video on this by ETC, they also suggest replacing the lens tube with a high quality version for the best light output. If you replace the rear end and the lens tube then cost are getting close to a new unit. It's also starting to sound a bit like Trigger's broom.

 

I can't remember where I heard this but it has been suggested that it is because the patent has expired on the standard lens tube but not on the high quality version? Therefore there is more money still to be made on the latter but the former will be pushed out by inexpensive copies

 

If thats true then it would make sense as to why they are plugging the new tubes so hard.

 

Also you later mentioned the cost of 16A plugs in smaller venues. Im assuming this unit would be just as good running on a 13A? or even a hard powered 15A? If you can get power for dimmers or any form of generics then these would need far less? Unless im missing something in your question (sorry if I am)

[timsabre]

Also you later mentioned the cost of 16A plugs in smaller venues.

 

I think Kit meant the cost of running in additional 16A circuits - i.e. increasing the power availability.

[itiba]

Quite often on exhibition stands you're charged a huge amount for power so running your fancy display lighting from a single 16A supply rather than a 32A supply makes a huge cost saving. I can see the corporate world snapping these up but they perhaps don't have a place in theatre quite yet

[Hass]

I can see them helping save money in exhibition situations as they use less power like you said. (Last exhibition I was involved in was around £230 per 16A socket required if I remember right)

 

I was unsure whether kit was referring to the available power or access points to that power, but as itiba said I can see them being great for exhibitions or the like, im just unsure how useful this will be in an existing venue as many of the ETC marketing materials seem to suggest they want you to swap out all your venue fixtures for these. (they keep mentioning costs and power reductions in full venue refits.)