Post ABTT Bronze training

[Just Some Bloke]

Where I work we have a Technical Apprentice who I'm looking to find training for. It's a 2-year apprenticeship and last year we sent him on the ABTT Bronze training. This year the plan was to send him to the Silver training until I looked at the syllabus/schedule and felt that I wouldn't wish that course on my worst enemy. From the description it sounds extremely dry and typically ABTT (if you'll pardon me for saying so!). Our apprentice is looking for something hands-on rather than something that goes through legislation, specifications and paperwork.

 

Does anyone have any experience of courses they think may be suitable? I'm looking at anything from half a day to a full week.

 

Thanks.

[SamDram]

As your apprentice, is it not your responsibility to provide the practical training? Or are you thinking something more along the lines of a placement for him to learn something outside of your workplace?

My apprentice has a curriculum type thing that I have to follow, which is issued by Backstage Academy.

As an apprentice, I would say that he is very privileged to be put on ABTT courses! I'm still fighting to get put on Silver course myself!

 

It may be helpful to call around some local theatres, to see if they need helping hands for a fit-up or get out. I often get to take apprentices to the Marlowe in Canterbury, which is a great insight for them as to how a professional theatre is operated.

 

Can't really think of much in terms of practical courses. Maybe an ABTT Pyro course? I think that involves blowing stuff up, which is always good fun! (When handled safely and according do industry guidelines...in case any HSE scaries are watching!)

[Just Some Bloke]

We are a professional theatre like The Marlowe, so our apprentice is getting regular on-the-job training every day. Get-ins and fit-ups are very well covered, thank you! Just the other day he learned that if you can't reach the house tab button because the incoming company have put their on-stage sound rack in the way, then the correct course of action is to use a broom handle to press the "open house tabs" button (they didn't cover that on the ABTT Bronze training)!

 

I think it's very important for him to learn more skills in some kind of formal learning environment, hence my question.

[kerry davies]

The question is what you want the trainee to end up with, a piece of paper or the skills to do the job. The Live Event Technician Apprenticeship Standard is basically a list of skills rather than a list of qualifications.

 

Have a look at this, noting that it is a 30 month, Level 3 apprenticeship and maybe come back with more questions.

[Just Some Bloke]

I apologise if I didn't make myself clear in my original post.

 

We are a professional theatre and our apprentice works full time for us and is now in his second year. Thus, he is a pretty good technician already and getting loads of really good experience. He is not the academic type so doesn't care about pieces of paper too much and wouldn't want to do a university course, for instance.

 

Nevertheless, I would like him to learn from other people, as well as the excellent on-the-job training he is already getting. I don't want the training to be dry and/or paper-based. I want it to involve some getting stuck in (though some background learning is good too).

 

Something along the lines of a week or a few days learning a small amount about lots of things, each with background, theory and practice would be terrific. Otherwise, anything that follows on nicely from the ABTT Bronze but without being too boring would do just nicely.

 

Hope that helps.

[Brian]

Depending on what department he wants to end up in, how about a RADA summer course? (Obviously) too late for this year but could be worth looking into for next.

[paulears]

I'd be very surprised if higher level training of this kind is ever going to be practical, because the people on the courses are at completely different levels of experience. So the training must be on the less interesting but important things. Stuff like risk assessments, licensing, regulations, paperwork, principles and perhaps background knowledge. The kind of thing you cannot do 'on the job'. When I was doing my teacher training, late in my career - it was the dullest most mind numbing thing I have ever done. All my previous knowledge was kind of useful, but I had to learn things I found totally boring. However - much of what I learned has come in handy, so I think my viewpoint on this is that yes, to will be boring, but that is how it is. Lectures, death by powerpoint, and writing. I actually threw away all my teaching folders a couple of weeks ago, when I found them in a box in the store. Nothing in them worth keeping, but hundreds of hours worth of writing.

 

If you teach your apprentice how you do the practical stuff, and let him get the dull, but important but stuff elsewhere, sounds the best option to me.

 

The only good times we had learning to be a teacher was the session in the helicopter dunk tank, and the oil tanker bridge simulator. Nothing at all to do with the course, but one of the other students was teaching in that area, so his lesson planning was on this kind of stuff - which was just pure luck. The course, was truly awful, but essential to get to wear the flat hat at the end!

[Jivemaster]

Have to say that with the real practical stuff well covered, what you need is for all the dull chalk and talk stuff -death by powerpoint to be covered. Some things NEED formal outside certification -C&G PAT testing for example! For some of these it's up to you to work out how far your apprentice can/needs to be pushed.

 

Introduction to all sorts of things that will crop up, Equality Act, Pyro, HSAW, basic fire awareness, basic lifting awareness, Work at Height, basic risk assessment, the list is endless.

[kerry davies]

Being me I will always start with some sort of safety passport type training but, as Jive says, there are oodles of IPAF/PASMA/WaH/Mech+Manual Handling/Access Equipment/PAT/First Aid things he could benefit from, as could the venue. One of the 7909 and/or Linc's pyro courses would be good and perhaps shadowing the admin staff would also give him a more holistic appreciation of his role.

 

The thing is that he learns and how is unimportant. Holding a piece of paper will help him in future but not a tenth as much as your glowing reference. Create your own training regime at JSB Level, you are good enough.

[the kid]

I have to say that my 1st job, when there was this thing called "money" in education, I milked it HARD, pyro, Risk assessments, PAT, it Working at Height, safe guarding, fire safety. You name it they are all really useful to know, most will touch on bits that are useful. If possible I would avoid "corporate" training, hss etc do most useful courses, but hell I have never done a fun and good one, the best have always been people who have been there done it, like fire training with firemen (I hear doing fire safety at an airport is the most fun you can have)

I missed out a chance to do when at home, but if the company you favour for kit is having a day of training send him off there. I learnt off someone the right way to strip down and clean a s4, learning how to do something like that right is never a bad thing.

 

If he has not done already, things like the 3 day rigging total solutions run is great. It might be a touch too much for theatre work, but I remember quite a large amount from it that I use today, or it will trigger something that I can use.

[Jivemaster]

While you can still tell them where to go and what to do IS the time to arrange all the essential chalk and talk sessions.

They are never going to learn all of the skills fully but H&S, PAT, Pyro, fire safety, site safety, noise at work, work at height and a hundred other topics need introducing.

[Just Some Bloke]

Yes, I completely take the point that he needs the background knowledge and that is exactly what I want him to have. It's just a matter of how that background knowledge is delivered. There are some, like Paul for instance, who can tell themselves that this is important even if it's boring and just knuckle down and learn. There are others, like (I suspect) my apprentice, who will think "this is not for me" and switch off, thus learning nothing.

 

Having done teacher training myself and taught for 4 years in FE, I learned, both from my PGCE training, and from actual practical teaching, that the best way to ensure information goes into the brain and stays there, is to make it interesting and fun to learn. You can show someone a graph of how feedback happens and tell them to make a note in their books not to push a mic into feedback, or you can set up a mic and speakers and tell them to get as much level as they can from the mic without it feeding back. Then when they find the point above which it's not OK to go you can ask "why do you think it does that?" and steer them towards the right answer. The latter way of teaching helps people to enjoy learning and to remember what they've learned. That's the sort of course I'm after.

[Jivemaster]

Sorry but where liability injury and possible death is the outcome I'd prefer learning by chalk and talk over error and trial.

 

This apprentice IS going to have to deal with people on your (companies) behalf, they are going to have to work safely under pressure, the NEED the knowledge before they get the wrong experience.

[w/robe]

JSB is the only one who knows the apprentice and is being a realist about him while giving him opportunities to extend his knowledge. It may be that his attitude and/or abilities limit how he can progress but surly someone can think of a course that would be useful for this guy

It may be that JSB is wrong but he is never going to send him on an academic course.

[w/robe]

Strange double post