Budget Digital Desk

[bamba]

I have a client asking for a cheap digital desk, that's NOT iPad based, (like the Mackie DL1608). it needs to be at least 8 ins and have 4 aux sends. for less than £1k. Any ideas? I was going to spec an X32. but its 'out of the price range!'

[benniferj]

I have a client asking for a cheap digital desk, that's NOT iPad based, (like the Mackie DL1608). it needs to be at least 8 ins and have 4 aux sends. for less than £1k. Any ideas? I was going to spec an X32. but its 'out of the price range!'

 

I'm a massive fan of the 01v96 from Yamaha - I've owned one for around 4 years and it has been rock solid and easy to use the whole time. They come in new at around £1600 which is a bit overpriced given the advancements from others. But a quick search I did when checking the current retail price shows that StudioCare (a great dealer I've bought from before) have a second hand one in at £865. It should tick every box you need and is expandable using slot cards if you upscale in future.

 

http://www.studiocare.com/yamaha-01v96-mixer-used.html

[MarkPAman]

Just to check - when you say "NOT iPad", is it to avoid, Apple products, tablets in general or all forms of touch screen. For example, would the QSC "Touchmix" be a possibility?

[bamba]

Just to check - when you say "NOT iPad", is it to avoid, Apple products, tablets in general or all forms of touch screen. For example, would the QSC "Touchmix" be a possibility?

 

As in not using the tablet as the processing for the desk, I have looked at the QSC Touchmix, and I will be putting it forward as one of the options (along with the 01V96)

[MarkPAman]

Ok - In which case add the Line6 StageScape to the list as well. The Presonus StudioLive 16 is also within the budget.

 

Incidentally, I don't think any mixers actually uses a tablet for processing, only for control, but I take your point.

[Mystic]

Presonus got quite a range there from 16 to 64 channels, with local UI or remote UI (desk or ipad) if needed. Have a look there : http://www.presonus.com/products/mixers-and-control-surfaces

[Dave m]

When you say digital, what part needs to be digital?

[Bobbsy]

I also like the 01V96 but it's getting to be "old technology" and it's not the most user friendly thing in a live sound situation. You should consider the level of experience your client's operators will have and take a view as to whether it's suitable. FYI, the 01V96 was designed primarily for studio/audio post work.

 

As for the Presonus they're dirt cheap but consider whether you can work properly without motorised faders. If you (or your client) plans to use a lot of scene pre sets, these become a major issue if the faders don't move to reflect what the pre set has called up. This factor has been a deal breaker for me with digital desks.

 

FYI, I'm in the same dilemma as you...a friend wants to buy a small digital desk for a group he's involved with...doesn't need a lot of inputs but would prefer real controls for the mixing rather than a touch screen. I'll be watching suggestions here with interest.

[sam.spoons]

As far as I'm aware the only one that fits all the requirements is the Presonus StudioLive 16.0.2 at £652 but that doesn't have motorised faders (absolutely essential for a digital desk IMO). If the budget could stretch to £1400 I'd buy a Berry X32 Producer but the OP says not.

[Alec]

As far as I'm aware the only one that fits all the requirements is the Presonus StudioLive 16.0.2 at £652 but that doesn't have motorised faders (absolutely essential for a digital desk IMO). If the budget could stretch to £1400 I'd buy a Berry X32 Producer but the OP says not.

 

X32 Producer £1,069 from dv247. That £69 over budget gets you an awful lot more than the sub 1k competition

[mojo filters]

Although I haven't driven one in anger yet, the smaller QSC Touchmix would seem ideal for these needs.

 

Folks I know who have used it had nothing but praise. The default "simple" user level lets you rig up mics and playback inputs as fast as you would on analogue, with no need to refer to the manual or quick start guide if time is short.

 

The deeper advanced features are apparently very impressive for the price, with a colleague telling me he'd use one for a live band over an X32 that needed an iPad! I assume he probably meant using an iPad with the Touchmix too, so that may not be in line with the OP's requirements.

 

Whilst I suspect most of these won't be used for full band, live music type environments, there is a great feature I found called "Gain Wizard". When enabled it establishes a baseline input level, then warns the user if anyone is allowing their volume to creep up, allowing you to reduce the input accordingly.

 

The analogue gain pots were criticized when they announced this, but my colleague said it was great for our basic mic, music and video audio playback. When a wandering speaker unexpectedly moves toward feedback city - it's easy to grab the gain knob as you'd do a fader. With the channel strip up, the pan pot lets you follow wandering presenters - avoiding feedback (assuming typical L/R setup).

 

Other good things reported include: responsiveness of the touchscreen, the included wi-fi router works fine, the unit is stable with many heavy XLR leads plugged in, and the bespoke wall-wart PS attached reassuringly securely - though I'd expect serious users will buy a spare.

 

Prices for the 8 channel vary from £700 - £1000. Both the rack mount kits and spare PS cost around £100 each, which seems a tad pricey. I couldn't actually find them in stock, but presuming they're not vapourware, buying them with the desk puts you in the best negotiating position.

 

Whilst the obvious place for the 16ch model is on top of a rack, the form factor of both would seem to lend them well to simple table-top placement - especially if you don't use any other rackmount kit.

 

One feature which interested me was the direct drive wired IEM auxiliaries. I know some digital desks have auxs already strong enough to plug in ears directly, but deliberately making the desk capable of this, by properly matching both impedance and amplitude, is a neat idea for probably negligible cost. It makes for nice differentiation with competitor's products.

 

I've not yet heard or read anyone reviewing this feature. Most reports seem to involve environments where IEMs don't get used. However for bands running sound from stage, it seems like a great feature to have - even if just the drummer's wired up.

 

I would have thought this feature would work well for these new stagebox + iPad mixers. Soundcraft and Behringer seem to have been really tight-fisted in terms of aux count here.

 

I'm surprised Soundcraft hardly changed the I/O from the original SM Pro design. I expected them to make a better product than Behringer, via professional-type features. E.g. a decent number of auxiliaries, not using a nomenclature that indicates a channel count much higher than the actual number of main head amp inputs.

 

All these issues make the QSC mixer look more attractive. The design seems to smartly use the DSP power, providing a richer feature set for users who want to delve into the advanced functionality. I like that all the inputs (20 on the 16 channel model) have full processing available.

 

How friendly the UI really is in a difficult environment is another question. A stage full of mics, DIs plus monitors all needing to be patched, routed, named etc quickly - that's the best usability test for small value digital consoles.

 

If you have the luxury of programming scenes via an offline editor beforehand it makes matters much easier, but can also give a false sense of reassurance - as you haven't yet needed to make important changes fast and on the fly. It's the ease of doing such that best tests a desk for proper live sound reinforcement duties.

 

I'm not yet convinced it's doable via touchscreen(s) alone - but of all the current crop that rely on such, the QSC appears the best thought out on paper to my mind.

 

Whether it can ever be as simple to perform complex tasks on, as a Soundcraft Compact/Expression/Performer (my current favourite) is yet to be seen! I look forward to reading more about others experience. I doubt one will fall into my lap anytime soon.

 

(snip)

 

Incidentally, I don't think any mixers actually uses a tablet for processing, only for control, but I take your point.

 

I don't know any that use the tablet for processing - does the OP's friend have an example?

 

I thought the Mackie DL allowed the docked iPad to both playback and record 2 track audio via the desk. That's the closest I can think of, unless some newer ones have the offline editor as part of the tablet app, instead of on a proper computer?

[sam.spoons]

If he can get an X32 Producer for £1069 that's a total no brainer, just buy it quick :) And I do mean quick, X32 Producer prices have gone up by £400 in the last two months. DV247 say they have 5 in stock, I'd be prepared to bet that, when they're sold, the next batch will be the same price as the current Thomann stock at £1400 so don't hang about.

[bamba]

Brill thanks everyone for your thoughts/expertise.

 

I've given the client a range of options focusing on the X32 producer, the QSC Touchmix and a second hand Presonus.