mattlad564 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Hi guys, I'm trying to help sort out what our drama department should be getting lighting wise, and probably sound but I'll make post in sound for that. The department is moving locations and we want new kit. The rig is a u shape on the ceiling and that is it. we are bring our old generics and power packs but we're are considering getting some LEDs, I cannot clarify the budget as staff aren't allowed to tell me but they will apparently be quite flexible. We think LEDs are the way for us to go to make it a quick rig to use regardless of the situation and the colour required. I would like them to be easy to use as well as an easy to use desk for generics and DMX fixtures. We're talking year's 7-11 so needs to be easy to use. Also what device would people recommend to put between the power packs and the desk to turn the signal to which ever number of pin DMX is required. Many thanks Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Ok - what kind of control desk do you have, and how many channels are spare. Assuming it's a DMX control, then if you buy all the same type of lights, many can be controlled by just three channels, so if channels are short, then assuming you have three spare, all the lights can respond on the same faders, giving you red, green and blue, and any other possible colour. Lots of the cheaper LEDs need five or 6 channels each, to give some master control, or possibly some effects or other fishy-flashy things. Don't forget each one needs power, so that is another cable to get up to your U shaped grid, along with the DMX cable. If the teachers really know the budget but won't tell, get them to sort it themselves, because you are working with both hands tied behind your back, and they're being stupid. More likely that they don't know the budget either. EDIT - ah, now I read your profile and you're still a student. This explains why they won't tell you the budget. In a school, budget equates to power, and teachers hate telling students things like that, because it's private - and also makes them look bad having to ask a student. Just how it always is. If you are googling - remember teachers call dimmers power packs, hence why you might not find much info. DMX is simply a control protocol. Dimmers, and clever equipment both use it to communicate, so the key is a simple daisy chain - control to dimmer pack, then that one to the next, and then up to your grid and the clever lights - it's nothing special nowadays. Likely problems could be if the control is already maxed out, so you have no channels spare. If that's the case, a simple 6 or 12 channel separate DMX control with faders may be the simplest for drama. I'd suggest NOT involving a computer of any kind. Rarely needed, rarely works, and too complicated for the teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Also what dimmers ("power packs") do you have. If these don't have DMX then the answer to your last paragraph is a box called a Demux. Some photos of your current setup would probably be useful, or list the equipment with manufacturer part numbers so we know what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 The rig is a u shape on the ceiling and that is it. we are bring our old generics and power packs but we're are considering getting some LEDs, I cannot clarify the budget as staff aren't allowed to tell me but they will apparently be quite flexible. Matt No Matt that isn't quite it. You need to find out just what the U shape is, the wiring going to it, the types of sockets envisaged and the number of ways. You also need to find out the power coming into the space. Only then will you be able to start planning. Ask the teachers if you can see some drawings. If they want your advice they need to do this. Before that why don't you have a go, just for your own pleaure, in making your own plan of the rig with the resources you think would be ideal.Time spent on infrastrucure planning is never wasted even if it is purely theoretical and you might be surprised how quickly the costs rise even if you simply price the components. It's good fun too. Read some lighting books - search on here - for ideas while you are doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrown96 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Some photos of your current setup would probably be useful, or list the equipment with manufacturer part numbers so we know what you are talking about. Hi MattAs Tim suggests a bit more information would be useful to help answer your question. Along with this some information about what staff (Theatre Technician, Teacher etc.), if any, are involved with the technical side of your drama department and what experience/knowledge they have. We could recommend an all singing all dancing rig with LEDs and movers, that you might know how to use but once you leave will be put away and never used because no one knows how. Something that happen has the potential to happen with kit more complicated than generics particularly in schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattlad564 Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 Thanks for the replies guys.Getting pictures of the rig in the room we are moving too is going to be quite hard as it currently has a false ceiling hiding it. The experience side isn't too much of an issue. I've got experience with generics, LEDs, moving lights and multiple types of control. And also the drama teacher has quite a bit of experience as well so I think she will be all good with most stuff. Currently the rig has 15 amp plugs on but our current tech guy wants to have them changed to 13 which I am fighting against as would limit possibility of generics. We currently have a jester 24ml in our hall and I was looking at possibly seeing if we can put that in the drama department and get something new for the hall. I'm not sure if you think that would be useful for kids or not. That is the current power packs, I think we will bring them on the move meaning that we will need a demux, I understand quite a bit about DMX as have a DMX chain set up in our hall but couldn't remember demux when was writing the post. The current generic rig is all fresnels which we are thinking of keeping half at least and putting LEDs in instead for the other half. The current desk for drama is this (sorry for bad pic. Phone being weird) Edit: not sure what's going on with the pictures. Am on my iPad. Will redo from home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave m Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 if you change the 15A sockets on the rig for 13A ones you open yourself up to blowing fuses "somewhere " in the supply from the dimmers 13A is normally switched (only) in the box or on at all times. that's why 15A plugs and tails are used - they don't have fuses so any fault is generally at one end or the other of the supply.schools used to have 5A rigs back in the day for the same reason. it is also an idiot proof way of indicating what the power is intended for. 15A for dimmed - 13A undimmed Normally you would have a good mix and run dimmed traditional lanterns on the 15A and things like projectors and LEDs on 13A LED is ex[pensive lumen for lumen can't see any images, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattlad564 Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 1430232206[/url]' post='521175']if you change the 15A sockets on the rig for 13A ones you open yourself up to blowing fuses "somewhere " in the supply from the dimmers 13A is normally switched (only) in the box or on at all times. that's why 15A plugs and tails are used - they don't have fuses so any fault is generally at one end or the other of the supply.schools used to have 5A rigs back in the day for the same reason. it is also an idiot proof way of indicating what the power is intended for. 15A for dimmed - 13A undimmed Normally you would have a good mix and run dimmed traditional lanterns on the 15A and things like projectors and LEDs on 13A LED is ex[pensive lumen for lumen can't see any images, Yeah sorry about images. Am working from ipad and they didn't import properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandall Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Currently the rig has 15 amp plugs on but our current tech guy wants to have them changed to 13 which I am fighting against as would limit possibility of generics. Get all the big guns you can muster to resist this crass idea. You'll never know whether you have a dead bulb, or dead fuse, or both, but more seriously, SOMEBODY is going to see the 13A sockets in the grid & think "great, I don't need a mains extension to plug in my TV, monitor, projector, etc". I've never tried it, but I suspect they probably won't like being dimmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattlad564 Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 If they change the sockets to 13A then there would be no dimmers as you should never connect an led to a power pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrown96 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Currently the rig has 15 amp plugs on but our current tech guy wants to have them changed to 13 which I am fighting against as would limit possibility of generics. Get all the big guns you can muster to resist this crass idea. You'll never know whether you have a dead bulb, or dead fuse, or both, but more seriously, SOMEBODY is going to see the 13A sockets in the grid & think "great, I don't need a mains extension to plug in my TV, monitor, projector, etc". I've never tried it, but I suspect they probably won't like being dimmed. Might be worth considering using 16 amp plugs/sockets for hard power as this will stop anyone not meant to be using the rig hard power from using it. Makes control use of rig easier and adds the benefit that fuses blowing in plugs at rig level is removed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 If they change the sockets to 13A then there would be no dimmers as you should never connect an led to a power pack ...and also mean you won't be using ANY generics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattlad564 Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 If they change the sockets to 13A then there would be no dimmers as you should never connect an led to a power pack ...and also mean you won't be using ANY generics! Yeah my problem with it exactly. Have some issues with the current school tech cause he keeps going back on what he has said, which is just irritating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandall Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 If they change the sockets to 13A then there would be no dimmers as you should never connect an led to a power packI thought you said you wanted to keep the generics & add some LEDs. If you want to make it impossible to plug LEDs into a dimmer, use IEC or16A (as suggested above) outlets for the LED fixtures. Alternatively, stick with 15A & clearly label the non-dim outlets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Sorry Matt but to be perfectly honest the only realistic solution is to suggest that your teachers/technician need to talk to someone with actual real world experience with installs. You have very little influence if I can be so blunt, despite what you may feel. As a student the adults may ask your opinion out of courtesy. Whether your teachers have any idea of what things should be (and that does appear to be the case from what you say) or not is academic to you because they really can't take any real advice from a student. What decisions are made have to be based on proper advice from industry experts. This is something that crops up with disappointing regularity, and does demonstrate how little schools in the UK know about technical issues and setup. That's not their fault, as it's not their prime reason for existence.Maybe if there is one of the teachers with more interest, suggest they join us here in the Blue Room for some direct discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.