Mobile radio advice

[eamon]

Hi all

 

Mods:

Unsure which forum this should be in. Toss up between sound, backstage and health & safety. Move if required. Thanks.

 

 

 

Currently I have 6no. Motorola GP360's as staff radios for use during shows. The useage breaks down into a mixture of FOH, Technical, show requirements. There use and need has been proven and they are a great benefit to the smooth running of the venue(s).

I purchased the units second hand and have already replaced the batteries once in the last two years. As it stands, I am looking to replace the units with newer units; specifically Kenwood KT 3000 VHF

 

 

I am currently renting an annual licence from Comreg (same as Ofcom) over here and it would be a simple re-tune.

 

 

I have been quoted for these units by a very reputable local supplier but I am looking for some feedback (possibly real world) on the strengths et al for the Kenwood units. I will be tuning them into the same registered frequency etc.

 

Has anyone any opinions on this model?

 

Intended use:

 

a) Communication between FOH, Technical & show crew.

b) Use for emergency evac & co-ordination

c) General work as required.

d) Confined to one arts centre. Not intended for use outside the building.

e) Help reduce lone working.

 

The units seem ideal for my purpose but just wish to secure another opinion.

 

many thanks

 

eamon

[emsgeorge]

what are the existing gp's - uhf or vhf ?

 

For events, we have always found uhf to be better - as uhf penetrates structures a lot better than vhf - although vhf will give you more distance in open air.

 

If you are in field and want distance, vhf - otherwise, uhf.

 

 

Kenwood have always been good units, just remember you will have to get all new chargers, accessories (the pin outs are the other way round for kenwood radios), and cases for them if you switch over.

 

 

However, on googling kenwood kt 3000 - it comes up with a vintage radio tuner .......

[eamon]

Well, 1st mistake of the year...

 

You are correct. I gave the wrong reference number for the mobile radio 'a

 

The units are kenwood TK 3000. See URL:

 

http://www.kenwood.com/india/com/srbr/tk-3000_m6/spec.html

 

Sorry about that.

 

Eamon

 

Forgot to add:

 

Will have to check what the GP 360's are. Left work etc.

Agree re UHF. Use will only be within the one building. No pub in the vicinity.....

 

Cheers

 

Eamon

[paulears]

Kenwood (and in their older label, Trio) are nice professional pieces of kit. I tend to categorise Motorola as the kind of old 'Strand" - reliable, dependable, but hard to get excited over. Kenwood, Icom and Yaesu being slightly cleverer, often programmable from the unit rather than remotely, and often offering cloning - so you programme 1, and then plug each into this one and transfer the channels, CTCSS codes and splits etc. I've owned Kenwood kit - indeed I still have an old UHF somewhere.

 

This all said, they're not cheap - as none of the similar kit is, but reliability and long life are part of the deal. You can, of course buy similar unbranded or odd named Chinese products - which will work fine, and can be treated as disposable, however, just to use the theatre I'm working in as an example, they have Motorolas, and falling off the belt causes no problems at all, they seem to bounce and carry on, even onto hard floors. We have a couple of cheap Chinese units and the battery pack on one is cracked and the other has lost it's front transparent cover over the LCD display.

 

 

So I guess it's a hard call - long life, but hefty outlay vs throwaway.

 

Oddly, they are all designed to meet the same standards of RF compatibility, and I haven't seen any real difference there. The cheap ones sound a bit tinnier?

 

Between Motorola and Kenwood, personally I'd look at the users - do they want just a simple radio with channel selector, or something a bit cleverer? As radios tend to be, for your purpose, a one-time programme product, I'd be happy with both. If you wanted to perhaps do retunes, or split frequency working, or other cleverer stuff, I'd go Kenwood - otherwise it would be the best deal really.

[AdrianW]

Sorry to 'hijack' the thread....

 

But has anybody else seen these radios?

 

http://www.baofengradio.co.uk/bf-f9/

 

We've just bought one for the boy for xmas (he wants it for AirSoft).

 

I know they are Chinese tat .... but for the price they give my GP340's a run for their money! Almost disposable at that price!

 

Adrian

[cedd]

We now own nearly a hundred HYT UHF handhelds and we're very happy with them. A handful have gone away for repair due to a fault with a filter capacitor that prevents them receiving, but for the number that we own they've been great. They're even "fireman proof" which is our acid test. They seem to break every other piece of equipment we give them at an alarming rate!

 

My strong suggestion would be to look at UHF over VHF. They scatter far better than VHF, so you're more likely to be able to talk to somebody on the roof from the basement.

Look at getting a programming kit for whatever you buy. You may even find your dealer will throw it in for free. A future upgrade would be to buy yourself a base station and go for a duplex license. Having programmable radios will make that transition or future expansion much easier.

 

A decent charging regime can really help battery life. You don't know how well the previous owner looked after those batteries so I'm not overly surprised you had to change the batteries. They're not cheap though are they!

[Tezzachs]

We now own nearly a hundred HYT UHF handhelds and we're very happy with them. A handful have gone away for repair due to a fault with a filter capacitor that prevents them receiving, but for the number that we own they've been great. They're even "fireman proof" which is our acid test. They seem to break every other piece of equipment we give them at an alarming rate!

 

 

Have you got a link for these?

[cedd]

Sorry, it'd help if I'd called them by their proper name. HYT is the shortened version of their real name Hytera. Here's their UK site;

 

 

http://www.hytera.co.uk/product-categories/analogue-radio-units/

We own the TC-610's and I can categorically say that all their claims about being robust are true.

[Brian]

...and have already replaced the batteries once in the last two years.

 

Is this the only reason you're replacing the whole radio?

[emsgeorge]

Hytera were always touted as cheap Chinese rubbish.

 

However in the past few years, they are now up there with respected Motorola, kenwood icom etc brands.

 

Their digital offerings are particularly sexy !.

[TomHoward]

I had Linton 3260s, which were fake Kenwoods from the east, which started off okay but I was down from 16 to 5 operational over around 10 years. Mostly they stopped receiving which I also assumed was a filter/squelch problem but I couldn't find anyone to repair them in the UK and they were SMD so there wasn't very far I got with them.

 

Currently I am also looking to replace them (I sold the lot on eBay a few months ago) but in smaller numbers - probably 4-6. I have been looking at used GP340s but currently looking at buying new Icom F4002 - these are about £150 a piece. Can anyone put some rough prices on other units like the HYTs?

 

Chris did you find anywhere in the UK happy to service/repair chinese radios? I would be more inclined to buy again if I could find support. Could you define "a handful" as a percentage?

[dmxlights]

I have 4 2nd hand Icom radios and 4 new ones and never had any problems with them and have replaces the batteries once in 5 years of owning them which was only last year I replaced the batteries

[paulears]

 

 

http://www.baofengradio.co.uk/bf-f9/

 

We've just bought one for the boy for xmas (he wants it for AirSoft).

 

I know they are Chinese tat .... but for the price they give my GP340's a run for their money! Almost disposable at that price!

 

Adrian

This is exactly it - these bits of kit perform surprisingly well, and are indeed disposable, so if you drop it in a muddy stream, it's fine.

I have 6 very similar - two cracked plastic cases, one which prevents the battery being secure - one the beep on power up doesn't work.

Icoms - I have around 10 - dodgy battery packs the only complaint, but that's not really the manufacturers fault, they're worn out.

Kenwoods - 1 UHF and 1 VHF - cases are metal, battery packs are both cracked from being dropped

Motorolas - GP300 series - 6. One broken aerial, the rest work perfectly

Yaesus - a vehicle version - been solid, reliable and damp proof. A hand-held that also lives in my van, and again seems damp proof.

 

So I don't find a trend. You can buy spare Chinese ones for the money. However, the 'proper' brands feel very solid, chunky and have better audio - that's pretty well it from my kit. When I first became self-employed I used to hire this kind of kit out, and sort of then fell into radio mics. One thing I am not certain about is approval. The old system used to require radio equipment to be type approved, but now it seems that kit simply has to meet the approved standard? The Chinese kit has never seen a proof house, so I'm not 100% certain it's use is legal. The UK web info is a little fuzzy, when it's added to the Euro standards, so my current thinking is that they can indeed be operated if a license is held, but if anyone knows contrary, that would be very useful info. The price of the proper kit could indeed be justified for purchase decisions if the cheap products were actually unlicencable?

[emsgeorge]

the only bad thing with the direct programmable radios, is that users who don't know what they are doing, can end up on frequencies that they aren't licensed for, or at worst, other services licenses.

 

For instance, I remember reading that some of the imported American 'gmrs' radios (think same as our 446 type service) were in fact on the same freqs as many of the uk fireground channels, used by the uk fire services. So they could be interfering with the fire service, and not know.

[eamon]

Hi all

 

 

At the moment, the GP 360's are just programmed to one channel. Felt this was safer than 2-4 channels as it could easily lead to confusion amongst staff as to which channel they should be on. If I had full control over ushers etc, I would be mixing channels etc but for the moment 1 channel is enough.

 

 

at Brian:

I will admit part of me is attracted by the shiny newness of the radio's but I have long been of the belief that you should buy something once and buy it right. Not always applicable but for something that is mission critical or intended for daily use, quality is the only route to take. Unfortunately quality has that little o cost thingy attached. It is more than the battery replacement. The units are quite large and bulky. As I mentioned in my 1st post, I am looking to reduce the lone working of the job. The venue is ran by me & another. There are always times that we are working alone in different spaces and also locking up post get outs alone etc. I am not looking to start a separate discussion on this style of work tbh. The building is a 1-2 man job and that is just the nature of it. There is also a keyfob for late night working; sends texts to alert dangers etc. It is during the days that you are doing stuff that you can check on someone if they have a smaller (more powerful) radio on their belt. The 360's also "drop out" at times. A call may come in to us both standing by each other and I may not get it whilst my assistant does. The 360's have shown they work now I just to put in something better, more manageable and with a longer shelf life. I will accept that at some point I will need to replace the batteries.

The 360's are designed a bit heavy and I think that as doorman that is an advantage.... but this list is the intended use.

 

I would also prefer something that makes a greater intelligent use of the battery (proper battery management required too) and feel that these units based on my readings would tick a lot of boxes.

 

 

 

Use on a large night

2 x technical

2 x Usher (1 in each space)

1 x FOH

1 x Spare/poss show crew etc.

 

 

I am also wondering what people do with their radio batteries that get 4-6 hours of use semi-heavily and then nothing for a while. Do you let the units run down and charge them properly for the next call or do you just bung them in the charger?

 

cheers

 

 

eamon