achanner Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Hi Everyone, (Hope this is in the right area of the forum as it spans Sound and Health & Safety) We have recently mounted speakers in a multi-use hall with proscenium arch stage and (as my knowledge and experience is primarily with LX and not Audio) have gone with the advice of most of the people I was able to ask/google and located the main speakers (Yamaha DXR 15's) on wall mounted brackets at around ear level of those people sitting to watch a show. So far. the general comment on sound quality from the users of the place are very positive, and the previous feedback issues we experienced (the room has a solid balcony rail featuring a mixture of tight curves and flat panels which previously seemed to cause reflections all over the room) have reduced significanly using the lower slung speaker position. My issue now is that the internal Health and Safety advisor (which has significantly less knowledge of audio than me - mine is not amazing - and is approaching this purely from an insurance point of view) has said that due to the fact that the speakers are lower than 6ft 6 with nothing underneath, they now present a hazard as someone may hit their head on them and so they need to be moved above 6ft 6 and that in any case, they cant be located where they are as there needs to be a six foot wide, unbroken 'corridor' parallel to the wall leading to the double fire exit in the far corner. My feeling on the matter is that the 6ft 6 corridor is leading to a 5 ft wide door, so in any event, the 'corridor' needs to be (risk assesed) at 1.2m and in any case no more than the width of the double doors; and, with the correct markings, the 'corridor' can angle away in a straight line from the door (where incidentally there is a stage overhang which is also less than 6ft 6 high, but doesnt seem to be a problem!?!) past the outer edge of the speaker. As for the height, if I put them back on stands, I would imagine the heightproblem would go away, but the stability and bulk of a stand compared with a solid, fixed bracket is no contest! From an audio point of view, I would really like to keep the speakers in the location and at the height they are, but have no knowlege or legislation to backup my claims sufficient enough to not just sound like a disgruntled technician. Can anyone offer any advice as to right/wrong here or point me in the direction of any books/material to formulate an argument for my case? Cheers, Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 From your description, I'm afraid I might have to side with the drone on their current placement. But could you post a drawing or photo; that might make things clearer on the alternatives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Speakers at sitting ear level sounds like a recipe for deafening those on the front row whilst depriving those at the back. Agree that a couple of photos would speak a thousand words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 In fire/evacuation situations if a fire route is "near" a wall people will naturally move towards the wall (if it's dark/smokey then the wall provides a logical way to guide yourself) so anything that is at "bump in to it" height in an area that's likely to be used in the event of an evacuation is going to be a no-no as someone WILL bump in to it. If you look around you'll notice that fire lanes / corridors / fire exits are designed to be as "smooth" as possible precisely because when they are being used people won't be paying attention and could very easily get caught or injured by anything in their way. It could be argued that the stage itself is in the way (as you mention) but it is also a more substantial object and part of the fabric of the building so presents a different set of risks to an after-market addition of some heavy speakers. Is there an actual reason why the speakers couldn't be moved up the wall a bit? Sorry, I too am inclined to agree (for once) with the H&S drone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Probably a first for us, but I frequently do the run from stage to the rear of the auditorium in total blackout, because the switches I need are there, and turning a light on for the walk, to then go back to switch it off is too much! I do it quickly by following the wall, and if there was something at head height on the journey, it would be clearly a hazard. In an emergency, lots of people would be doing exactly the same thing. If it's only a few inches, how about mounting them upside down, that way the hf would remain roughly at the height you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiLL Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 As someone who is 6'3" I would have to say that raising the speakers by another 18 inches will hurt you a lot less than it will hurt the guy that runs into it the first time. It's not often that Blue-Roomers side with a H&S 'official' but in this case sorry, he get's my vote. Of course a 'temporary' option would be to hang a soft 'flag' under the speaker to bring the obstacle into a lower eye-line and prevent some accidental collisions until you solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave m Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I'd agree about raising the height.And I am only 5'6"! are you limited in height to raise them?Either it's not clear or I didn't read it correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Anthony, it is not a case of right or wrong and do not blame yourself or the H&S man, it is what it is. The relevant words are "unimpeded egress/access" and your speakers are an impediment. As Shez writes, I wouldn't have put them there anyway and raising them adding some "tilt" would almost certainly kill two stones with one bird improving your coverage. As for the width of exit it depends on numbers and usage and is a movable feast. This is useful. But if you serve alcohol or have predominantly young audiences you might wish to bump the B2 up to a B3 calculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achanner Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 Hi Guys, Thanks for all your comments, the main reason for placing them where they are is to avoid the solid fronted rail of the balony which has caused a lot of feedback issues in the past. Looks like we need to look at raising them with a decent tilt and perhaps look into some fabric panels on the front of the balcony. Cheers, Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 You've mentioned this a few times now and I'm confused - feedback usually follows the path of least resistance (straight line from mic to speaker) I'm not so sure it works through long-distance reflected sounds and even if that is the cause then changing the angle of the speaker would eliminate the problem. Might now be the time to get a noise boy in for a day to help design and configure your set-up; someone who has the relevant expertise to help you achieve what you want within the space is probably going to be a lot cheaper than mounting, remounting and endlessly adjusting the system as you try to learn it yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart91 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 perhaps look into some fabric panels on the front of the balcony. Whilst adding fabric will certainly do no harm, you might not get the attenuation you desire from thin material. One possibility is to stick acoustic foam tiles on the surface behind and stretch the fabric over them to conceal it. This might be cheaper overall than, say, thick wool serge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 At the risk of repeating myself, any chance of some photos? It would help no end to be able to see unambiguously what the layout is in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seano Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Thanks for all your comments, the main reason for placing them where they are is to avoid the solid fronted rail of the balony which has caused a lot of feedback issues in the past. If the mounting allows, you might find you can flip them upside-down and keep the horn at more or less the height it's at now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I suggested that in post 5, but he didn't respond? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Only speculation of course, but if the speakers are on brackets at around ear level of those people sitting to watch a show then flipping them will probably still not get them high enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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