Programming a show on a Behringer X32

[partyadz]

Hi all

Programming a musical on this for the first time in a couple of weeks - radio mics and orchestra. Just wondered of any tips or pitfalls to avoid?!

Cheers

[paulears]

Make sure you have the latest firmware - because they've improved the scene memories. The main thing to remember is the status of the safes, so you can move from scene to scene without changing some things that you need to keep the same.

 

Well worth downloading the app and setting your inputs, labelling and grouping. Do make sure that the app is the same version as the desk firmware version - old apps won't work on a desk that doesn't match. The labelling and colours are also much quicker to program on the app.

 

Make certain that the if you have any audio files you intend playing via a USB stick, that they are the same sample rate as the desk setting, otherwise they won't play. I've not tried the very latest update, so I'm not sure if this is fixed in the latest one.

 

I'd stick the orchestra on layer 2, and the radios on layer one - and then probably use the VCAs.

[d_korman]

Defintely update to the new firmware. Even though the Behringer remote control apps don't work with it yet, you can get a free android app (Mixing Station) that does. The V2 f'rmware's "Snippets" feature in the scenes section, that allows you to recall only the specific channel and parameter combinations that you need to change, is IMO essential for musical theatre as you don't want the levels of live channels that you've been riding to change when you need to bring in a new group of characters

 

I've just programmed mine for Witches of Eastwick which I'm doing in a few weeks time. I have 18 radio mics, 3 floats and 7 channels of band. To avoid having to switch layers to access radio mics 17 & 18, I put ch 17 & 18 onto DCA 1 & 2 so that I have all the radio mics effectively on one layer (Uli - please give us the "extend" feature that is available on the smaller desks on the full console so that we can have 24 channels on one layer without using up DCAs!). On layer 2, I the have the float mics and the band, each assigned to a DCA so that I don't have to switch layers often (if at all) during the show. I also assign all the VOX to another DCA so that I can turn the lot off during dance sequences etc. (you couldl also use a mute group of course, but I find it easier to use a DCA as you can find the correct one more quickly).

[partyadz]

Nice one, cheers guys!

[OllieDuff]

If I've understood correctly, the X32 has two fader banks but only one of them can have inputs assigned to it? What possible advantage does that have over full customisable fader layers?

[paulears]

It's got three, and two are freely assignable to whatever inputs you have on the go. The other layer usually gets used as returns, although it's possible to use it for other things with a few restrictions.

[timsabre]

It's got three, and two are freely assignable to whatever inputs you have on the go. The other layer usually gets used as returns, although it's possible to use it for other things with a few restrictions.

 

Well, it depends if he means layers or physical banks of faders.

 

There are 2 physical sets of faders on the panel, a set of 16 on the left which is used for inputs and a set of 9 (? I think, haven't got it in front of me) on the right which is used for DCA's, bus sends etc and the master L-R.

 

Each set can be switched between various layers and functions, but you can't assign inputs to the right hand set of faders on the full size X32, you can only have 16 input faders on any one layer. However on the smaller versions you can allocate the other faders, and this is just a software thing, which I think is what the previous post was referring to.

[partyadz]

Is it possible for Qlab to send a midi cue to the desk to move to the next scene?

[S&L]

re fully customisable layers:

 

you have two (or 4 dependant on model) but others are customisable within restrictions.

the x32, x32 compact, x32 producer all work the same way (except see below)

 

on the full x32 you get

left layer 1 - faders for channels 1 to 16 - but you can reroute other faders to here and reroute 1 to 16 elsewhere

left layer 2 - faders for channels 16 to 32 - routing as above

left layer 3 - faders for aux 1 to 8 in and 4 fx stereo returns (2 faders per pair) - these can also be re-routed elsewhere.

left layer 4 - bus masters - I never use this layer so can't comment

 

right layer 1 - faders for group DCA'S 1 to 8

right layer 2 - faders for buses 1 to 8 - typically monitors and fx

right layer 3 - faders for buses 9 to 16 - typically monitors and fx

right layer 4 - faders for matrices 1 to 8

 

you can also re-route fx faders, bus faders etc to the left faders 1 to 32

 

on the producer and compact you get exactly the same as above, (32 channels on the left plus aux etc) and can reroute to and from the left side faders but with the following exceptions:

because you only have 8 faders on the left, you have 8 layers for channels 1 to 32, aux ins, fx returns etc. instead of 4.

you have all 32 channels plus BUT you only have 16 physical xlr in connections on the rear - the rest have to come from either a digital snake or card input etc.

with version 2.02 of the software installed you can 'cascade' layers from left to right. so for instance if you hold down 1st and 2nd layers on a compact you get channels 1 to 8 on the left and channels 9 to 16 on the right. you can do this for any two layers on the left, cascading the second layer to the right. if you select any of the normal right hand button, the console reverts to non cascade behaviour.

 

so essentially whichever model you use, the left side is for channels and the right side is for groups, buses and matrices. BUT on the smaller console models you can cheat and 'cascade' or extend the left channels to the right faders.

why the left/right split? well apart from using less faders than say the qu series, you can do the nifty sends on fader thing, where you can flip through say 12 monitors and 4 fx, seeing the mix of channels going to each monitor bus - I have 4 monitors and 4fx side by side, so if I engage sends on fader, I can flip through from monitors 1 to 4 and reverbs and see exactly what mix of the left channels is going to the right and adjust both the mix for that monitor on the left and the master for that monitor on the right. I can flip through monitor mixes 1 to 4 in 2 seconds a channel, quickly running my eye across to see if stuff is where I think it should be - and then back to FOH mixing, without missing anything - it's very fast and very intuitive.

 

 

Is it possible for Qlab to send a midi cue to the desk to move to the next scene?

 

the midi document says yes. you may as well be talking Russian to me though so check it out yourself to be sure. http://www.behringer.com/assets/X32_MIDI_Implementation.pdf

[chelgrian]

it's very fast and very intuitive.

 

..and doesn't give you enough input faders to busk a large musical on.

 

It's all software so why not allow completely customisable fader layers for those of us that need them while providing a standard setup with an input / output split for those who don't?

[azlan]

Possibly so they could 'fix' it with the m32 or another future product. They need to segment the market somehow

[S&L]

it's very fast and very intuitive.

 

..and doesn't give you enough input faders to busk a large musical on.

 

It's all software so why not allow completely customisable fader layers for those of us that need them while providing a standard setup with an input / output split for those who don't?

 

there are serious answers for that:

 

1. it's a £2k mixing console - find me another mixing console at that price point that does the job significantly better, remembering it's not specifically aimed at musical theatre

2. there is no reason you can't lift faders 17 to 24 and put them on DCA's to the right, which gives you exactly what you asking for - 24 faders on a top layer.

3. musical theatre isn't my thing though I have been around it - but with your orchestra fixed on layer 2, I would suggest that you are probably under spec'ing your mixer if 16 faders plus 8DCA's isn't enough for you - for which see item 1.

4. the 'cascading' of faders across left and right for the smaller consoles is a software construct, available on v2.02 - I can't see why that couldn't be extended to the full x32 console if enough people ask.

5. referring to azlan's comment - at least at the moment, the fader functions and all software is common to both the x32 and m32 - with the m32 you are basically paying for something that will be future compatible with midas stage boxes, has a more robust body construction (they say) and a better ergonomic position for the screen - and a midas badge.

6. the comment refers to 'busking' a musical but that's not what the majority of musical theatre techs using the x32 have asked for. Behri have made it clear they want to make the software a living product - presumably they think that constantly updating software for free is keeping and expanding their market share. so the live band guys like myself asked for an RTA and got it. the studio guys asked for various high end compressors etc and they got those. and the musical theatre techs did not ask for improved ability to busk - but rather improved scene control - and they got that. the underlying assumption (I assume!) is that with good scene control, you never need more than 16 faders and 8 dca's on top for what is happening on stage (given your 32 channel count) - as the next scene can change what's on the top layer anyway. So I guess if you don't like what your colleagues have shouted for, shout louder.

[OllieDuff]

1397348656[/url]' post='497695']

1397330333[/url]' post='497669']

it's very fast and very intuitive.

 

..and doesn't give you enough input faders to busk a large musical on.

 

It's all software so why not allow completely customisable fader layers for those of us that need them while providing a standard setup with an input / output split for those who don't?

 

This is what I was driving at. Why not have it fully customisable straight out of the gate? Being forced use DCAs as "remote controls" for a single channel is a bit daft, and given that it's entirely a software construct, it almost seems more effort to write the code governing the constraints on what can be on which fader...

I get that it's a cheap desk, but giving it fully customisable layouts wouldn't have added to the production costs that much. Just seems like lazy design dressed up as a "living product".

[sam.spoons]

I'd say Berry had to start somewhere, I believe the input/output bank paradigm is there same as several other, high end, digital desks (not that I ever get hands on with such exotica) so was probably a good place to start. Software design is a time consuming (and therefore expensive) pursuit and a decision has to be made to bring a product to the marketplace sooner or later, it's inevitable that some features will not be there from the outset. I have been looking to buy an X32 Compact but am waiting until the V2 software is out as I can't live without the option to have 16 input faders on one level (and the full sized X32 is just too big for my needs). It's an evolving product at present which is a very good thing.

[paulears]

It's like magicQ. Frankly, I'm amazed at people looking at the feature set, and the price then moaning that it didn't do more - for Gods sake, what do you expect. Two years ago, you'd have spent a thousand pounds on a 16 ch analogue or maybe six grand on a digital desk. If you wanted loads of faders, fine - pay for them. If the X32 doesn't do what you need, then buy something bigger and more expensive. People have workarounds that they don't find an issue. Crumbs - a 2K desk with VCAs is pretty damn good, in VFM terms. Behringer have added tons of user requests, but how far do you go before it's no longer the concept of the X32?

 

I bet lots of feature requests just make them smile and wonder how greedy we are. Please Behringer, I don't want to spend six grand or more, so could you make your two grand desk do the same things please? It's only software changes we're looking for.

 

Presumably the people at Midas wish to protect their price point products, so reducing the gap too far is not good for the music group in the long term.

 

what's the big deal with layers anyway? On my large format Yamaha analogue, I find moving from channel 1 at one end up to channel 32 too far for me - I'd rather sit still, and have a fader under my finger tip, than do a stretch try to read my labels in the dimness!