sam.spoons Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Nice desks, several steps above the Peavey speaker system http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif. I can't help with the subs aspect though my gut feeling is to agree with OneEng regarding the Ksub, it looks too small too be effective to me. I have an old EV sBa750 sub (1x15" and 750 watts) with my K12s and it is more than enough for anything I do (acoustic stuff to bands in anything up to large pubs and medium function rooms). On comparison of top cabs I much preferred the K12 over the ELX112, I felt the ELX was a bit 'home hi fi' where the K12 was more 'studio monitor', i.e. more detailed and precise. I also prefer the Yamaha DXR to the ELX though they both seem to have a more scooped mid range than the K12 like a sort of built in smile curve (but maybe it's just that the K12 has a more forward mid range than t'others http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif). My main priority is acoustic and the quieter end of electric music and the K12s just blew me away with their realism and clarity when I used a pair at a small open air acoustic gig. If you don't need reinforce sections I'd say the K12s will do the job without breaking a sweat even in your bigger rooms. It's all about your preferences though, I like the detailed mid range of the K12s, you may prefer the warmth and top end of the DXR. Go and give them a listen and then see if the dealer can arrange for you to borrow a demo pair of your favourites for your next gig (going with OneEng's other suggestion I'd definitely try to give a pair of K12s and a single KW181 or PRX718XLF a listen, a single one of those subs may well be better than a pair of Ksubs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 I'd really prefer a matched system if I can put a decent one together. The rest of the signal chain is okay, half decent mics etc as the room has a retractable seating rake, and an installed Panary system, but it doesn't work for the room in other configurations as sometimes with the seats in the wall we use it side on etc, so basically the Peaveys are 'mend and make do' left often from pre-refurbishment which is why we're looking to upgrade from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 A matched system is good where you are dealing with low mid frequencies upwards (all taken care of in the one box in the systems we've been discussing) when it comes to subs, they are not the most subtle of beasts so as long as the crossover frequency is the same for the sub and tops (which it will be if you use the sub's internal crossovers or a separate active crossover) you'll be fine. The only variable will be the subs and tops relative volume and as you will want to adjust this to suit the room and band it makes a matched system a bit irrelevant. If you really need to have the same badges on the front though try 2 x QSC K12s and 1 x KW181, a bit over budget but as superb system, or the Yamaha DXR/DXS range.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 Thanks, Just as it is within budget do you have any experience with HK Linear 5 Club Pack? 12" 138dB tops with tilt adapters like the QSCs. I haven't heard any opinion at all on this yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Sorry, no I haven't (and at 50% over budget that's a fair bit of "headroom"), I did work regularly with an HK Projector rig (and liked and would recommend it) but even used that would stretch the extended budget a little. Going with what I know (and your "headroom") you could afford a couple of Yamaha DXR112s or even DSR112s and one DXS115 or DSR118W, or, 2 x JBL PXR712 and 1 x 718, or the aforementioned QSC 2 x K12s and 1 x KW181, any of which would be a massive step up from your Peaveys.Time for a trip to your friendly dealer I think http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 This is probably a stupid question but I don't have much experience with temporary asymmetrical systems - with 1x sub are they omnidirectional enough that we can run them off one side or does it need to be central? Central might be difficult as our staging is Q-Build often rather than steeldeck so has legs every 75cm in both directions and is only about 400mm height at the front edge. There's a 2xTT22A and 1xTTS18A system on ebay at asking £3,500 - that is over budget (I could stretch to £3,000) but looks like it could be worth pursuing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I run my sub on one side of the stage without ant problems. In some respects it's better to have all the sub energy coming from a single source to avoid cancellation at certain points in the room. Remember your band probably need very little sub as you'll only have kick and bass guitar through it, everything else will be HPF'd at the crossover frequency or higher (female vocals can be HPF'd as high as 160Hz without any audible impact on the sound). And while a big band can be pretty loud you're not trying for hip-hop levels of bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 I tend to run aux fed subs for rock to be honest but for cabaret I could be more through as I tend to only HPF vocals so I could clean the subs up a bit. I can't say I'm sold on a single sub as a part of me also wants the system to look the part (although I know that's unreasonable) but I will look into single sub systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 ..... with 1 x sub are they omnidirectional enough that we can run them off one side or does it need to be central? All sub is omni-directional and that is how the HK Lucas is designed. I like the look of the Linear system but would need to hear it though what really impressed was the Elements kit. Too expensive but extremely pokey for hand luggage. The ELX are indeed a jump up from ZLX and in practical terms the QSC and Yammie kit is only available to you second hand. I suggested ZLX since you could afford four and a sub giving you flexibility, monitors and two separate voc systems when required. Always essential when you haven't got the capacity and no problems using the lot in one system. In your position at a college I would go for new and warranty rather than chance used gear. You might not be able to anyway, I wasn't. Just my personal thoughts. Do use your own ears to decide, mine are all hairy and old. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigYinUK Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Although I bought my ZLX's slightly used, they came from an EV reseller so have the rest of the manufacturers 3 yr warranty on them. In my case that's between 2.5 yrs and just under the full 3 yrs. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Since you don't need a huge amount of sub in the mix here you could get the 'two sub' look and save some money with a couple of Alto Truesonic TSSUB18s. Probably not as good as the other subs mentioned here but definitely worth a listen at under £400 each (a third of the price of the QSC KW181). They look the pare and if there anywhere near as good sounding as the Truesonic top boxes (fantastic for the money, good by any standard) they'll do you proud. You need to prioritise the tops for your usage, they're where most of the crucial stuff is going on. And HPF everything except bass and kick....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azlan Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Since you don't need a huge amount of sub in the mix here you could get the 'two sub' look and save some money with a couple of Alto Truesonic TSSUB18s. Probably not as good as the other subs mentioned here but definitely worth a listen at under £400 each (a third of the price of the QSC KW181). They look the pare and if there anywhere near as good sounding as the Truesonic top boxes (fantastic for the money, good by any standard) they'll do you proud. I heard a pair in a pub a while ago, being ragged quite hard (dj in a pub on a friday night) and it was pleasantly supprising. A bit 'one note' ish, but really not bad for a small active sub. I did actually do a double take when I saw the labels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S&L Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I heard a pair in a pub a while ago, being ragged quite hard (dj in a pub on a friday night) and it was pleasantly supprising. A bit 'one note' ish, but really not bad for a small active sub. I did actually do a double take when I saw the labels. care to expand on the 'one-note'-ish bit - for a while I have been thinking about putting together a 6 box rig - a poor man's equivelent to the HK actor. the TS 15 and 18 subs have been on my 'to listen to' list so curious as to what you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azlan Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 There was plenty of volume, but everything sounded like it was centered on the exact same frequency, rather than being atall detailed (although this was not neccecarily the subs fault, it could have been something funky with the room or the dj's eq) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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