bennybwalker Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Hi all,I'm in a 5 piece band, we play things like muse, arctic monkeys etc. I do the sound for our band when we have to provide our own PA as I'm interested in it, and also enjoy it.I purchased 2 Wharfedale EVP 15" speakers from ebay, and later upgraded my mixer amp to a peavey XR500C, which works fine and is just right for our size gigs/venues. Recently, I have been asked to do sound for a few events, and need more control over sound, effects and also a monitor mix. After doing some research I have come across behringer's PMP series and it looks perfect for what I need.I spoke to my dad's friend (who does the sound for his band) and he told me that behringer had a reputation for being unreliable. He also said that he wasn't sure if they have gotten better recently, so that's why I am asking on this forum if anyone knows what the quality and reliability of behringer's desks are?Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 So as not to start the usual behringer war debate, I can predict the answers here from the same question that's asked over and over again. Behringer used to have a similar reputation to Skoda cars of the 70's and 80's. Cheap products, but quality control and originality were a bit suspect. However, they sold in great numbers and while faults got publicised with much hyperbole, the users who had no problems got a bit fed up with the negativity. Innovation brought many really useful and decent products with a few bombing. Being produced in China or other countries with cheap labour and poorer quality control, a few products failed for quite silly reasons. Mixing desks were a common one - very simple problems like ribbon connectors falling off the plugs on the board - vibration the culprit, and fixed in later version with blobs of glue. Those people who have been bitten seem to hate Behringer with a vengeance, and slag them off at every opportunity. Those (like me) who have had mainly good results don;t object to the brand at all. Behringer brought out the X32 digital mixer, and set up a worldwide service facility that actually sought problems on the net and fixed them speedily. Very few people had any problems that couldn't be sorted out promptly. The Behringer bashers are now complaining that in year 2 and 3 of the three year warranty, some things aren't covered - but it's still a better warranty than many other brands. I can't speak for specific models, but Behringer offers good value for money. Snobbery is fading away, and in my humble opinion, Behringer, like Skoda cars have moved on and up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S&L Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Paul has fairly summed up the situation. I would just add that:1. if you are buying second hand, the results are always going to be variable - with speakers what you see (and hear) is pretty much what you get. With a powered mixer, like a girl in the dark at the disco, you don't really know what you are getting, where she has been or how badly she was mistreated before you set eyes on her. that's made more risky because you have two components in one, amp and mixer. 2. if you are buying new and are considering behringer, then you are buying on a budget. Behri quality is arguably better built these days than other budget mixers and you have a 3 year warranty to call on, as Paul says. though since you brought up the peavey comparison its worth noting that most peavey amps and mixers, particular their older gear are notoriously robust. I STILL have a peavey RQ mixing desk I simply can't seem to kill! 3. if you haven't considered separate mixer and amp then you maybe should. irrelevant of manufacturer, you are combining 2 separate pieces of equipment in one box and there is likely to be a point where IF one fails, then you have to bin both because it's often not economical to repair at this price point. Plus, if you are starting to mix for others you will find a separate amp and mixer more versatile. specifically re behringer I have had a couple of 2nd hand rack units that have failed. I haven't had a single failure of anything I have bought new of behringer's. further more while I'm not a fan of their DI unit's I have generally been very happy for the price with the quality of my purchases. with the exception of my x32, which makes me grin stupidly sometimes when I mix on it - a phenominal piece of kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laolu Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Ben, if you're buying 2nd hand again, you'll probably find more than just Behringer. Maybe you can get a second hand dynacord or a peavey mixer? Or get a mixer and an amp seperately, so if one of them fails, you don't loose the whole setup. I've also had good and bad Behringer-experiences, but generally I find their products OK. What fails quite often are their power supplies. I don't know why they don't pay more attention to that relatively simple part: voltage regulator ICs and transistors without heat-sinks are a no-no for me. Re: Made in China: What isn't? Good luck. Norbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybwalker Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Thanks for the help, I'm on a tight budget (mainly money from Christmas and birthdays that has slowly built up), so the chances are I'll get one second hand. I have considered a seperate amp, and even though I do think that would be the most reliable and the best way to do it, I'm also trying to keep the amount of gear I have to carry round to a minimum. I keep looking online for a peavey or something, but I need to spend more time looking (when I've got the time) I'm glad to hear that they're a lot better now, thanks Paul! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I'd agree with all said above. I've got a couple of Behringer compressors and gates had no personal failures, we had one (of about 6) EuroPower amp fail at work (and, in the same period all our 4 Crown XTi's failed, 3 needing expensive repairs). I'd reiterate, get a separate power amp and mixer setup, it's much more versatile. At first though why not buy a mixer with more channels (as required) and use the X500 as a power amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrolytic Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 do not buy a combined mixer and amp, its not professional. it can't grow with your system. the amp will over heat and die, it will not make economical sense to repair it. you don't want a telephone toaster. second hand Mackie 1604 for desk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.elsbury Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 "Not professional" What rubbish. I know plenty of professional people, and companies, that keep a couple of powered mixers available. For the right job they are excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybwalker Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Thank you David, I think it's less professional, but that doesn't mean it can't sound professional, and for what I need, it's perfect. Sam, I was thinking of getting a non powered desk and use the xr500 as the amp, however it's a mono amplifier, which isn't a massive problem, but I would like the flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Thank you David, I think it's less professional, but that doesn't mean it can't sound professional, and for what I need, it's perfect. Sam, I was thinking of getting a non powered desk and use the xr500 as the amp, however it's a mono amplifier, which isn't a massive problem, but I would like the flexibility. Buy the desk now and then later buy a 2 channel power amp when funds become available. The XR500 will then do to drive the couple of smaller monitor wedges in the next batch of gear you'll buy http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif You haven't mentioned what your budget is BTW? And how many channels do you think you'll need in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybwalker Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 That's a good idea Sam, think I might do that. I have gathered around £700 from many Christmases and birthdays that I haven't spent, but I have another fairly expensive hobby, so ideally I want to spend no more than 500 or 600, so I have some left for the future.Channel wise, we use about 5 or 6 at the moment, but our drummer is thinking of buying some trigger pads, and most of our equipment uses mono channels, so I've been looking at 12 or 16 channel mixers, as they generally have about 6 or 8 XLR/mono channels. But obviously if I find a mixer with more channels, and the same quality for a simalar budget then I'll go for that, always handy to have some spare channels. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 That's a good idea Sam, think I might do that. I have gathered around £700 from many Christmases and birthdays that I haven't spent, but I have another fairly expensive hobby, so ideally I want to spend no more than 500 or 600, so I have some left for the future.Channel wise, we use about 5 or 6 at the moment, but our drummer is thinking of buying some trigger pads, and most of our equipment uses mono channels, so I've been looking at 12 or 16 channel mixers, as they generally have about 6 or 8 XLR/mono channels. But obviously if I find a mixer with more channels, and the same quality for a simalar budget then I'll go for that, always handy to have some spare channels. :) If you're prepared to spend £5-600 just on a desk I'd say buy an Allen and Heath Zed22fx, it'll cost you just under £600 but will serve your needs for many years to come, it has 16 decent mic preamps, eq and digital fx, all in all it's a quality bit of kit. 16 mic inputs will cover most things and would be my recommendation but the Zed16fx is around £465, only has 10 mic inputs but otherwise it's pretty much the same as the Zed22. Of course if you can find one used that's even better, used analogue desks are cheap just now so a used bargain may be the way to go. It's also worth considering that a decent PA with a competent operator can earn some money doing sound for others, you probably won't end up in profit, it's a tough business, but it'll help fund the cost of buying and running the rig. Long term the cheapest way to build a good PA is to only buy stuff which will serve you for a number of years, you always lose money when you upgrade so buy wisely and keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybwalker Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Thanks Sam, I was thinking of asking the person who runs my local leisure center, it's a small place in the old school building, but there are regularly bands and events on there, so I could charge £20 or so for the night as a start, depending on size of the event etc.Also I've been looking at a Yamaha MG166CX, which has everything I need, and I think it also has a built in USB Interface for recording, so not only is that useful for my band to record some songs, but if I did end up doing an event for someone, I could sell them the recordings from the night for 5 or 10 pounds. Thanks for all your advise guys, I've moved away from the powered mixer idea now and I am focusing more on a seperate desk and amp, which like many of you said, is easier to replace if one fails, rather than having to replace the whole lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Thanks Sam, I was thinking of asking the person who runs my local leisure center, it's a small place in the old school building, but there are regularly bands and events on there, so I could charge £20 or so for the night as a start, depending on size of the event etc.Also I've been looking at a Yamaha MG166CX, which has everything I need, and I think it also has a built in USB Interface for recording, so not only is that useful for my band to record some songs, but if I did end up doing an event for someone, I could sell them the recordings from the night for 5 or 10 pounds. Thanks for all your advise guys, I've moved away from the powered mixer idea now and I am focusing more on a seperate desk and amp, which like many of you said, is easier to replace if one fails, rather than having to replace the whole lot The Yamaha MG series are decent desks for the money and the MG166CX would leave you just about enough to buy a stereo power amp within your £600. The Zed series have stereo USB too but just bear in mind the desk mix would only give a balanced recording if you miked everything up and even then the backline make a big contribution to the overall sound which is not reflected in the desk mix (you'll have to turn the guitar/keys/drums down in the FOH to compensate for the sound coming off the stage so the vox/keys will be significantly louder in the PA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal421 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Going off on a slightly different tack. I needed to go the other way. Having bought a Soundcraft SI I found I wanted a smaller digital desk for smaller gigs so for the princely sum of £280 I got myself a Yamaha 01V with ADAT card.. In the last 12 months I have used the Yammie about 60 times compared to about a dozen for the SI. If the Yammie went bang tomorrow it has worked out at £5 per show. To me that's not to bad considering all the processing power that you get with digital desk. That may be a route worth exploring ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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