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The difference in crossovers


bitofagiggle

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Being a fairly inexperienced sound op, as I am, who wants to start expanding his modest pub rig, the first thing I thought was "I'll get another amp and a crossover". This has been something I've been meaning to do for a while but never had the money.

 

Now that I'm coming to buy my first crossover I need to know what I should expect for my money? What am I paying for when I buy a £200 DBX crossover compared to a £60 Prosound *shudder* crossover? I mean, I can't see a crossover colouring the sound so why the drastic price differences? Or are you just paying for extra features or buying the brand name?

 

Any help for your resident rookie?

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I'm sure someone more qualified that me will come along with some advice but I'd think that factors such as noise, distortion, effectiveness of the rolloff etc, overall build quality, quality of connectors etc would all come into it.

 

I'm also not at all sure you're right in thinking that a poor crossover wouldn't colour the sound.

 

Regards

 

Jon

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for a budget pub type rig one of these http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_cx2310_super-x_pro.htm will do the job, in fact we had a couple of them in an install for a 250 cap bar with no issues (on EM speakers, and there was no noticeable loss of quality)

 

the more expensive ones will have more features, such as system EQ's, real time analysers, delays, phase response, remote controls and presets etc.. as well as better quality components

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Another main concern for a gigging artiste is reliability. You want to buy a unit that you have confidence in and know that night after night ,gig after gig will perform and not let you down. I personally would not feel confident turning up to a gig with anything Pro sound on my rack!

 

Also I would be reluctant to use a Beringher product at the heart of my system , their products are all low end and somewhat unpredictable and unreliable imo

 

 

Matt

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"Beringher ... products are all low end and somewhat unpredictable and unreliable imo"

 

Seriously? ALL?

That's a huge blanket statement covering a vast and expensive product line up

 

Yup, X32 anyone http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

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I've used the Behringer CX2310 in a small system with no issues for 6 years now. It's been chucked around many pubs, clubs, theatres, corporates and DJs with no issue whatsoever. I got a security cover to put over the front of the unit to stop it being tampered with and no issues whatsoever. It's in an ABS rack with a TSA 4-700 and there's no issue whatsoever.

 

I also use the DCS2496 which is a great little unit with lots of flexibility. There really isn't much you can do wrong in a crossover apart from use higher tolerance components from different bins or lower noise opamps for the "higher end" units. Noise incidentally has never been an issue. Even in theatre, there is no decernable noise from the crossover compared to say an analogue Soundcraft or A&H desk upstream.

 

Behringer gear, mostly, isn't that bad IMO. Yes, you don't get Alps or P&G handmade faders, or that warm fuzzy feeling supporting a British company, but who can you buy from and get all that? I'm willing to bet some of the "cheaper" dBX products are made to the same standards as the Behringer stuff, but the Behringer kit has advantage of end to end internal QC which can only come with volume of sales in China.

 

Josh

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1. SUPER X is fine. never say ever but I have had one in my rig working every week for a couple of years. also has some handy little switches so you can mute each of your 4 signals (if you are doing stereo 2 way) - meaning I can play program music and mute to check each speaker is doing what it should - a fast easy process that has been invaluable to me.

 

2. I'm not sure where the behringer slagging is coming from. I have had some old 2nd hand behringer gear fail on me but never had a new purchase fail so far - and don't forget they all come with a 3 year warranty. some of the behri gear in my collection:

pair of EPQ200 amps

- they have just kept on working barely run warm and have been reliable for the 3 years since I first bought one. originally used in the rehearsal unit it proved itself too good and found it's way into my road kit. then I added another when a different brand failed.

small di unit

- couldn't in all conscience recommend it but it has always worked whenever called on.

budget 3 mic set

- 3 years after buying for £20 for the rehearsal unit, the inmates have managed to kill one, the other two are fine though one is now dented. that's a result for the price and application and they even do a reasonable job of instrument mic'ing if desperate.

SUPER X crossover

- as above, worked flawlessly for a couple of years.

15 band stereo eq

- does what it says on the tin, no problems for last few years.

mini 6 channel mixer

- must be going on 15 years old now - I use it for testing and for keyboard stageside sub mixing and all manner of other bits and it just keeps on working.

31 band stereo eq

- actually picked this one up second hand in a swap - 2 years later its still as good as new, no issues.

x32

- I work two of these, one on tour every week and one that does mostly corporate, again used a few times a week - no problems with either.

 

I'm not wild about their testers. which I can go into if anyone asks but that aside I have no complaints

 

I'm sure for every behri piece of kit you can spend 3 times as much on a piece of gear and it does the job slightly better but I have yet to hear of any top end gear that doesn't have some sort of failure/repair rate. they don't put a 3 year warranty on their stuff because they like repairing things - they put it on because they expect the vast majority will work flawlessly for that period.

I think if you are working on a complex application, or have the backing of a big tour or theatre there is an argument to be said for moving up market. but there are plenty of other positive things said on this forum about the behri crossover in particular. for a bar rig it's perfectly fine - and that's what mine will be doing tonight.

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Also I would be reluctant to use a Beringher product at the heart of my system , their products are all low end and somewhat unpredictable and unreliable imo

 

 

Matt

 

Sorry, but this statement is ill-informed and out of date. Yeah, Behringer make some turkeys...but they also now make some excellent stuff at an attractive price point. Talk to people who bought the X32 digital mixer and tell them how unpredictable and unrealiable it is...

 

Appropriate to this topic, their DCX2496 loudspeaker management system is one of their goodies, often out-performing (and with a better feature set) than some big name stuff costing twice as much. I know they've found there way into quite a few fairly high-end setups.

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Some heated discussion going on but I think it's deffinately helping me with the decision making process. I understand the argument for hirgher end crossovers but after reading this I'm thinking my system isn't fa enough along to validate spending the extra £100. I think I'm gonna get a Super-X Pro as they seem to hold their value fairly well, I can then sell it on or keep it as a backup whenever I'm ready to upgrade. Thanks for the help guys!
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Er, in all of the must-buy-pricey/must-buy-cheap opinions, no-one's actually asked bitofagiggle what system he's after this working with. From the separate posting about buying a pair of active tops for £300, I suspect the budget end of things will be what's required, so let's keep it appropriate. Behringer (or cheaper) are likely to be just the ticket!
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"Beringher ... products are all low end and somewhat unpredictable and unreliable imo"

 

Seriously? ALL?

That's a huge blanket statement covering a vast and expensive product line up

 

Vast and Expensive Yes and they do produce a few reasonable bits n bobs ,But your never going to see a Beringher Desk or Speaker System on a pro Rider are you ?

 

They make reasonable ancillary kit like DI Boxes etc ... But I still maintain that its considered "Low End" in the trade.

 

I do like their kit and when it works its amazing for the price , but in my experiance I ve had too many Beri bits of kit failing on me and my clients...

 

The IMG / Monacor stuff is a similar price to Beringher stuff and seems to last longer .

 

Still Low end kit though... You tend to get what you pay for

 

 

 

Matt

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