Hog2 changing fixtures

[ceecrb1]

I'm currently updating a lot of fixtures in a site from space cannon focus to basic rgb led fixtures.

The emtire site is run from 2 hog2 rackmount playback systems using all 4 universes.

I've read the manual but not really finding what I want so I think I'm asking the impossible..Is there a way to morph/change a patched fixture to another head file so I can keep the show data?

I "could" just address the leds to match the cmy colour addresses of the focus's however in some moments the show has them to white... Which would relate to blackout on rgb so its not a suitable option.

Worst case I need to delete the focus's from the show and create a new patch and submaster for the leds but I'm hoping for a direct route to not alter the look of the entire site as the programming has effects using the focuses and nearly 100 minicitys all together.

 

[indyld]

I think you may be correct in that I don't remember being able to do things like morph/clone fixtures on the Hog II or other consoles of that era. As far as I am aware, these concepts came into focus with the III and desks of that generation.

 

I think that you might need to look at a way in which you can use alternative Universes/Addresses for your new fixtures so that you can leave the 'old' ones patched and add to the existing programming with the Mini Citys etc as you don't need to then remove the fixtures that aren't there. For me, leaving the existing kit patched in place where possible is the key although obviously you may be limited by universes in a way that is less apparent on modern desks. I realise that you may be up to the limit with this one.

 

This can be speeded up further by perhaps setting up any inverts required on the colour (for CMY to RBG) and having a go at using existing palettes to copy/align (in the Avo sense of the term, not the MA) settings and then updating the palettes with the new kit.

 

This isn't without work but some tactical thinking might reduce the workload. Although my experience is usually that the original show is fairly badly programmed and so any tricks fall at the first fence when it turns out that many cues are not made up of palette information of there is a big mess in the tracking.

 

Edit to add: If you are struggling with the Hog itself and fixture files (unlikely with just RGB but...), consider if there is anything to be gained by DMX capture and use a second desk of your choice to input values and recording them on the Hog rack. It leaves the show file a bit of a mess but might be worth thinking about, depending on the forseen need for adjustments in the future. Of course, one question is: Is the Hog II going to make sense looking ahead for the life of the setup? Replacing a desk for a newer version is not an easy task or decision but again, look at the future and consider what they might need next in terms of updates or further morphs etc.

[Joe Bleasdale]

I heard a few people mention the use of a complex keystroke macro to change types on a Hog II. I would imagine it was fairly limited even if it did work! I haven't used the Hog II to this level so I cannot confirm whether or not such a macro exists.

 

Is it not possible to re-program the show on a new system? Hog II is long past its sell by date now...

 

Thanks.

[ceecrb1]

Edit to add: If you are struggling with the Hog itself and fixture files (unlikely with just RGB but...), consider if there is anything to be gained by DMX capture and use a second desk of your choice to input values and recording them on the Hog rack. It leaves the show file a bit of a mess but might be worth thinking about, depending on the forseen need for adjustments in the future. Of course, one question is: Is the Hog II going to make sense looking ahead for the life of the setup? Replacing a desk for a newer version is not an easy task or decision but again, look at the future and consider what they might need next in terms of updates or further morphs etc.

 

I will admit that the hog2 issue has been on my mind for the last year or so.

Mostly as there were ideas bounced around of changing the minicities to led fixtures.. I´ve been managing to keep the client happy by sourcing 2nd hand minicities for spares saving quite a lot of cash on spares... but this idea wont last forever.

 

This would involve an entire re-programming of the enitre site and being a cinema/restaurant complex, the desks and control point are deep in an access tunnel with no view of the site. We only have 1 usb-DMX widget and due to site layout.. many groups of fixtures can cross between 2 or even 3 universes... so programming MAY be best done by paying someone to create a visualiser file and doing it "offline" at home.

 

 

I think you are right.. squeezing them into unused addresses on the 2 universes they are patched into may be the best idea for now. There is one last submaster free on the page being used.

They have been working for a few months on their own internal fade but its time to get them on DMX so they are in sync all night long and I so can alter the look a little.

 

 

My Last option is to use the spare cables and splitters I have and buy a DMX recorder.

I could just use my mq60 to program a chase.. record it then run it from the recorder in the rack room.. but I´d use up my emergency replacement splitter and spare the cables running to each zone... then connect those spare cables to the ones that split off to the fixtures.. but If I ever have an issue I will have no spares for an instant fix.

 

 

Needs more pondering..

[timmath]

Hi

 

This is possible to do do on a hog 2, fixture swapping is a painful process! it involved adding new fixtures, can copying/cloning existing fixtures in cues and adding the new fixtures to that cue, macro's make it easier but will still be a very slow process if it's a console filling old show. Another option may be to go to H3 Pc & use a DP8000 for DMX out, then all you'll need to do is convince HES to convert your show files from H2 to H3, once in Hog 3 you can easily swap fixtures!

 

I still have a Hog 2, if you needed to look at the show on an actual console.

 

Best

 

Tim

[indyld]

This is possible to do do on a hog 2, fixture swapping is a painful process! it involved adding new fixtures, can copying/cloning existing fixtures in cues and adding the new fixtures to that cue, macro's make it easier but will still be a very slow process if it's a console filling old show.

 

Surely this is not technically what we would consider really swapping or 'morphing' nowadays as, due to the lack of such functionality on the II, you are essentially just adding new fixtures and using existing programming to speed up the process of fitting those fixtures back into each cue as suggested above? In that case, then presumably the keystroke macros were simple to skip some of the steps of a very time consuming process such putting things in the programmer, copying existing fixtures values etc. The only other possibility could be some .lib cleverness but I wouldn't fancy it.

[ceecrb1]

In an ideal world I wouldnt mind spending the money on 2 rackmount chamsys systems (only because its the desk I´m best versed in) and convert the entire instalation to artnet as the main cabling used is actually cat5 where they have used 5pin XLRs rather than rj45s...

With minimal work I could get it all running as artnet and have some basic nodes at the last point in the chain where all the fixtures are powered from.

 

HOWEVER..

We're converting to LED to save money on running 1200W hmi's and the general up-keep of them..

So I just dont think the meeting where I present the quote going down well :(

 

The truth is we have 2 HOG2´s and an auto switchover system for if one fails.. and the ONLY failure we have had is that midi has failed on one... so we just leave them on 24-7 rather than have the rack system triggering them every day.

 

Other than that, I wipe and reload the show once every few months.. and from time to time refocus some gobos with the usb widget and by taking a laptop direct to the fixture.

 

I´d love to update to new toys but I just dont see them buying me new toys when the old ones still work :(

 

I´m starting to think I have a "solution".

I should be able to address the rgb´s in 3 channel mode and make sure that the first channel of the device cooincides with the C (of cmy) channel of the space cannon focus it replaced..

From the looks of the actual programming I should then be able to purely just update the colour palettes to acheive the end result I need.

 

It looks like effects were only used in the minicitiys as there are so many of them but the 12 focus's just fade though palettes which are still stored in the system.. sometimes all together, at other times just as a rainbow chase, but manually created using palettes. (dont see why it was done this way, but its may save my backside right now).

 

The only issue I see is that when I view the output for example Cyan palette it will show:

(colour - level)

Cyan - Cyan

Magenta - white

Yellow - white)

 

So if I edit white to be rgb at 100% then the final mix will be wrong, infact in this case (now Red) would end up as white...

But this also means that if I dont edit white, the moments that white has been used.. if I left it at 0% for correct mixing, would have no output from the fixture.

 

I´m thinking that the fix is leave white as it is... and think of it as black... .but create a new "rgb white" with everything at 100% and then just can through the many many cues in the submasters and alter any that actually want white light from "white" (cmy) to "rgb white".

I can also edit all the colour palettes to be the actual colour they state.. in the end they are just DMX values, the only reason its named that colour is that somebody named x values with y colour.

 

Its going to involve quite a bit of faffing about but I can do it in peace and quiet with a spare fixture and the usb widget at home with one last jug of summer sangria to keep me going!

[indyld]

The way that CMY and RGB relate to each other is that RGB Red is 255,0,0 whereas CMY is 0, 255, 255. This just means inverting the channels and therefore the defaults and voila! Not perfect but a good starting point. This doesn't magically fix the already programmed values naturally but is worth knowing in case it speeds things up in future.

 

Of course, I am assuming that this plan with work with the channel map for the CMY fixtures I.e they are consecutive.

[ceecrb1]

The way that CMY and RGB relate to each other is that RGB Red is 255,0,0 whereas CMY is 0, 255, 255. This just means inverting the channels and therefore the defaults and voila! Not perfect but a good start. Of course, I am assuming that this plan with work with the channel map for the CMY fixtures I.e they are consecutive.

 

yes they are! I checked this morning.

 

yes I´d agree thats also a way I can try it!

 

Just going to need to bring a widget and a fixture home and play till I get the best and easiest solution!

[Cormac]

Hi,

It is possible to clone fixtures in Hog II,

If you get the desired result is debatable.

The trick was to try patch the New fixtures into the show,you had to manually update all your pallettes first and then either manually or using a show clone macro update your cuelists one by one.

If I recall the syntax would be something like

Load cue 1

Group "x" pig copy group "y" enter update.

Group x being the New fixtures and group y being the original programmed fixtures.

There is and was a show clone macro which automated this process for twenty cues on every

Fader on every page.You could let it run once you had your pallettes updated.

It changed page and used four sets of groups so you could clone wash/spot/floor/generics.

[Leggy]

Cormac is correct, there are macros to automate most of this process.

 

I can email them to you if you like.

 

Leggy.

[Joe Bleasdale]

Matthias Hinrichs sent me a link tonight to his Hog 2 fixture cloning macros...

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zmmuw4scawr2hk2/bB0hKlUHhT

 

Enjoy...

 

Thanks.

[Richard CSL]

Hi

 

This is possible to do do on a hog 2, fixture swapping is a painful process! it involved adding new fixtures, can copying/cloning existing fixtures in cues and adding the new fixtures to that cue, macro's make it easier but will still be a very slow process if it's a console filling old show. Another option may be to go to H3 Pc & use a DP8000 for DMX out, then all you'll need to do is convince HES to convert your show files from H2 to H3, once in Hog 3 you can easily swap fixtures!

 

I still have a Hog 2, if you needed to look at the show on an actual console.

 

Best

 

Tim

HES will not do any conversions, I know because I have been asking them, although I am going from hog 2 to hog 4, but I gather hog 4 is actually hog 3 with a new skin. Aparently they used to do conversions but there was a reliability problem especially with effects.