Fixture orientation for festivals

[Oldskool!]

Hi, wondering if anyone has had much experience with the general way in which fixtures are hung on a general festival rig. (Big pro size stuff).

I have a showfile and it would be really useful to have my positions in wyg correct before changeover as sometimes it's only a short amount of time.

Do all companies generally stick to the same rules? PRG, Neg Earth etc! All tales stage right? Or is there no set rules and it's different everytime?

Also, if someone says "all tails SR" isn't that different on different fixtures? Do all moving lights have power and data coming out of the same side in relation to the fixtures forward arrow?

Anyone got good advice on how to quickly alter position palletes in a changeover? Don't want to stick to just a couple of positions for ease.

 

Thanks

[Adam L F]

Done a few gigs with PRG and it all depends on the HOD or LD, or generally it's arrows to the front.

 

Not all moving lights have their tails and inserts on the same side or in the same orientation.

 

Edit:- I know when you mean all tails SR you're just speaking about the gland really, but to make it clear it is a hell of a lot easier to have your 16A ceeform directly above the fixture, for swapping out quickly if needs be.

[LXbydesign]

Yup - usually work on the protocol of arrows to the front or if vertically rigged - arrows up

[Oldskool!]

Ok, but most people seem to use "tails" instead of "arrows" doesn't make sense to me either. How about side trusses?

[jono1]

Arrows to the front works most of the time, or arrow up as previously stated. Can depend on the application.

 

With regards to adjusting quickly on site it depends on which desk you're using.

Most modern desks will allow you to set your own home / locate position for the fixtures which would then bring them all into line, if not when you program just set a home position pallet and work from there for your others, then just adjust your home pallet.

 

Like you say though, if you are pre programming then ask the vendors how they hang their fixtures and do the ground work in advance. That way when you arrive on site you can get programming time for something more exciting than position pallets.

 

Hope that helps.

[Shez]

Ok, but most people seem to use "tails" instead of "arrows" doesn't make sense to me either.

I suspect it's just easier to tell local crew of unknown competence to rig them with tails all pointing in "that" direction. It's also very easy to spot at a glance if one is wrong. Ultimately, it's just a point of reference - they should go the same way around regardless of which metric you use.

 

Is there any kind of standard between manufacturers as to which way the arrow points? Will a positive tilt always tilt fixtures downstage if they're rigged overhead for example? Might be a useful addition to the wiki if there's a useful way of quantifying it.

[dosxuk]

Do all moving lights have power and data coming out of the same side in relation to the fixtures forward arrow?

 

No. Pretty much everyone has their own take on where the connectors should be compared to 50% pan (which is normally where the arrow points) and the displays. It even varies throughout product ranges by particular manufacturers.

 

When I get to choose the direction, I always do it arrows towards the front, otherwise it's just follow the plan / instructions.

[kurzweil_dude]

Production contact details should be advanced generally, so drop the guys on LX a email or a call and find out

[Judge]

Its a constant problem. If a unit (Martins do) has an arrow then I'll usually rig with arrow pointing towards the stage. That makes sense to me, and in the case of Martin fixtures it means that the display also faces onto stage which means we can see the displays and any error messages. Its a drag when the displays are hidden behind drapes or so close to a wall that you cant see it.

Robe are a bit fuzzy in this department however. As much as I love their fixtures, none of them seem to have a home postion that is marked in the unit. Plus on some units the screen faces fore/aft and on some its on the side.

The only vis software I am familiar with is Capture Polar and I am not convinced that they automagically place instruments in the home position. Several people have asked about this on their forum. So we place a light on a truss and program with it there, and of course once rig is built want to replicate that. Which way does Capture think the light is facing? We just don't know as on the program it has no screen, tail or other point of reference.

[niclights]

Capture does show the display location on the fixtures. That's not to say they will be correct but this is not really their fault since manufacturers rarely if ever detail this in the documentation. Like many things to do with personalities it relies on feedback from users. The same is going to be true for all the visualisation packages.

 

Unfortunately, even with all the info from the hire co. (assuming things don't change, which they usually do), you are still at the mercy of the visualiser to be accurate. There's a good chance that the more common fixtures will be accurate in the major vis programs but you can never be sure until you get to try a real fixture.

 

If there's any way you can get there while they are rigging then I'm sure there will be an opportunity to hook up and test before any headline programmers get on. Theoretically you can then go and make some adjustments offline.

[Joe Bleasdale]

The first thing I do when I come to a rig that I am "visiting" or standing in operating, is invert pan/tilt in the patch so that the whole rig (no matter where a fixture is pointing) all pan/tilt the same way. After that, update my positions. Updating positions and inverting in patch doesn't take long.

 

One thing I do before visiting a music venue or festival is to make my presets offline. Even with positions, ill just put a load of blank palettes in and name them. Half the time spent programming is naming and organising stuff! Record Merging into a blank palette that is already in the right place and named saves quite a bit of time if its a big rig. Not everybody has this luxury, but its something I always try to find time to do!

 

Most half decent sized festivals usually have a pre-viz computer on site so visiting LDs can use it when the stage is in operation. PRG do this quite a bit, and depending on the crew chief, its usually a damn good viz file!

 

Thanks.

[indyld]

One thing I do before visiting a music venue or festival is to make my presets offline. Even with positions, ill just put a load of blank palettes in and name them. Half the time spent programming is naming and organising stuff! Record Merging into a blank palette that is already in the right place and named saves quite a bit of time if its a big rig. Not everybody has this luxury, but its something I always try to find time to do!

 

I too do this as a matter of course, even if I have not actually vizzed anything. I find I can think more clearly about layouts and palettes/naming in the comfort of the office with a clear vision of how I want to work, well away from people rocking up and asking random questions about some houselight channel or which way I want the mirrorball rotating (all valid questions, they just break one's concentration). Merging into dummy palettes and cues are where it's at!! I even go so far as to banging some of those palettes into particular playbacks.

 

I also find that visiting an existing rig usually involves a certainly amount of fiddling about with inverts and even fixture numbers (either in the viz or in the room.) This is time blimmin' well spent as it speeds everything else up when you actually want to do something creative. Skipping the organisation part just screws you up later.

[niclights]

Another thing I have found useful is to make notes as to which fixtures are actually used in palettes. When setting up offline it is easy to have positions where all the fixtures point SR/C/SL etc. But in reality you might find that once you have programmed a show only a few might actually be used.

[grandMA_the_2nd]

Another thing I have found useful is to make notes as to which fixtures are actually used in palettes. When setting up offline it is easy to have positions where all the fixtures point SR/C/SL etc. But in reality you might find that once you have programmed a show only a few might actually be used.

 

Or you could just use selective pallettes and not globally store every light in every pallette which is just painfully dull...