Temporary induction loop for wedding reception

[CassieT]

Hi,

stumbled across this forum and hope someone can advise. We're looking for a temporary induction loop to be installed in a marquee for a wedding reception (SE England). Only a couple of guests have hearing aids so it could be a small one around one or maybe two tables especially if that gives a stronger signal than a loop around the whole marquee.

Does anyone know a company that can hire and fit this? Any idea of costs? Or suitable alternatives?

Thanks.

[GR1]

Please give a more exact location than SE England.

 

Thanks.

[Jivemaster]

The LOOP itself is a simple install. HOWEVER the material fed into the loop is not at all simple! Absolutely everything needs to be mic'd up and fed into the loop mix with as little spurious noise as possible.

[TomHoward]

Can you use one of those portable loop systems? I think they have ambient mic in so should just amplify.

 

http://www.nav.co.uk/global/media/products/resized/1319097151-2761.jpg

[Shez]

I think they have ambient mic in so should just amplify.

Does that not rather defeat the object? A hearing aid also has an ambient mic in that will just amplify everything.

 

As Jivemaster points out, the content is crucial. Anyone who's ever tried to record an event with a camera's own mic will have experienced that the sound an ambient mic picks up is generally useless - far too much unwanted material.

 

Presumably this is mainly for the speeches? Will there be a PA system in use for them? If you can get a feed from the mic used for that, that would be a good starting point. If there's no PA, a movable mic just for the loop could be used although it can confuse people if they can't hear it being amplified.

 

A few more details would be useful - how big is the marquee? How many people? Is there a PA?

[GaryNattrass]

You can get kits on e-bay for around £60: http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4d0b8b74d6

 

you will need to feed the scart input with your source or feed from the PA.

[ImagineerTom]

First of all, ask the people that will actually be using it if they would like one.

if they would, then ask them WHAT they'd like feeding in to the loop (remember on the day, they will have no choice over the sound you're pumping straight in to their ears so make sure it's something they actually need) and where they want the feed - just to their table, just to the dance floor, to the whole venue, to the church?

THEN speak to your sound engineer and make sure that the things you want to feed in to the Loop system are already being mic'd and arrange for a proper feed from him to plug in to the loop system.

 

ANYTHING other than this course of action will be a waste of time as the only thing worse than no Loop is a bad Loop!

[Owain]

an infra-red system may be easier to use than a loop for a temporary install, but you have also to provide suitable IR receivers for people to use.

[Jivemaster]

The LOOP is a simple length of wire, it can be bought or hired. However you will need someone to ensure that the essential material goes into the loop while the mush doesn't. Essential things need a microphone, and those need placing and using carefully, and someone needs to ensure that all the important speakers actually have and use their microphone.

 

If this is for specific guests have a word with them and ASK what they want.

 

In a quiet room hearing impaired people can often cope with a single conversation, in that noisy mush called a bar the ambient noise will usually be what prevents them enjoying the event. It's that ambient mush that shouldn't get into the loop mix.

 

Loops need hearing aids with a T setting

Loops do feed back into the band PA through guitar (etc) pickups.

 

Many aids have a T setting. Few aids will have an Infra Red sensor.

[danburns]

Also, once it's fitted see if you can have a listen. Failing that, get a hearing aid user to tell you whether it''s wrong or right.

 

 

At work, we've put in a few temporary loops (as well as testing fixed systems). Some of the stuff I've heard through them is really not good...but being able to hear what is going through the loop is a big help. We've got the kit to test and certify - but the numbers mean nothing. The most telling is the subjective audio test! (I've also learnt the hard way that hearing aid users have a certain knack of telling you just how bad your system is - made up for by being told the following week that after a couple of new mics and a few hours setting up that the venue now has the best loop in the area!)

 

To add to Jivemaster above - you can get "personal loops" that work with IR systems. Not used them personally, but heard good things from hearing aid users! Apparently better than any loop they have ever used - once they got over the idea of having to wear the loop!

[CassieT]

Thanks everyone.

 

 

Well, I'm one of the two deafies who we know will be there and wanting to hear the speeches. There is a PA system being set up so there will be a microphone for the speeches. Most likely hand held as that's what usually happens at weddings. My experience of wedding receptions is that sound quality isn't that good and there's background noise even during the speeches. So a working induction loop will make a whole lot of difference.

 

Yes, I could just buy a loop with plenty of cable, plug it into a line out on the PA desk and gaffer tape it down round a couple of the tables. But not sure I can get access to the marquee long enough before the reception to set it up myself. And years of experience tells me that loops aren't that easy. Even people who are meant to know what they're doing screw up loops. I've lost count of the times I've been at venues where the PA people swear blind the loop is working and tested, when in fact there's electrical signal going through them but they aren't actually broadcasting into the room and our hearing aids can't pick up anything. So I know it's not necessarily straightforward. Hence hoping there's a decent firm who can set this up or hire out equipment that is definitely straightforward so whoever is setting up the PA can do it.

 

In any case, I can't set it up myself as I won't have access to the marquee until the day and maybe not until the reception is about to begin. So though I can give it a proper test by seeing if my hearing aids pick up, there's not likely to be time to change anything.

 

The briefcase-like portable loops are good for reception desks and similar places where you're one-to-one. But aren't designed for anything bigger. The speaker and the hearing aid-wearing listener both have to be within about 1m from it. They don't have the power to pick up or broadcast further and in fact some of the design is specifically to limit how far they broadcast for privacy. If they broadcast further, another hearing-aid-wearer could pick up the conversation.

 

Sorry if I'm ranting. It's such a sore point. Lost count of the number of weddings where I haven't heard the vows, where everyone's laughing at the speeches and I haven't a clue what's been said, and the times I've been at conferences and the like where the loop isn't set up properly or not turned on, or no-one's using the microphones because the hearies don't need it .....

 

 

 

[Owain]

Many aids have a T setting. Few aids will have an Infra Red sensor.

 

 

Which is why you need to provide infra-red receivers with neckloops that generate a very local induction signal as well as receivers that have a headphone output for listeners who don't use T loops.

 

 

 

[Simon Lyall]

an infra-red system may be easier to use than a loop for a temporary install, but you have also to provide suitable IR receivers for people to use.

 

I've never been a massive fan... why? Because to use it you have to basically wear a big sign saying 'look at me I'm deaf/hard of hearing' and wear a bit thing around your neck. You also have to actively find the FoH staff member who has them, ask for it etc. It's all very much a hassle and can be really embarrassing. Such that one of the venues I support has one installed... it's very good, works perfectly and has the stethoscope, minijack output version and mini-loop. it's also based in a performing arts centre for young disabled adults. In the five years we've been supporting them, not a single person has ever used it! When I've had conversations with deaf/hard of hearing audience members they raised the above points! Typical british audience members want to remain 'gray' and not stand out.

 

With regards to loops, once you have an understanding of how they work and therefore how the placement (height too) has an effect on them, they can be a really effective way of subtly enabling the dead/hard of hearing audience to hear. And sending it the right signal is true too. No point amplifying ambience since that's what the hearing aids do quite well already.

 

Simon

[Simon Lewis]

Cassie,I would normally defend loop technology as being the most appropriate for the user, but there are quite a few issues that conspire hagainst you here. A portable IR system would be fairly quick to set up, but if you can find someone to hire you a radio based assisted listening system, that could be even easier to set up. Furthermore, the receiver doesn't have to have line of sight to the transmitter or avoid sunlight as IR generally does, and you could hide the belt pack away. You would need an appropriate free frequency to use. If you cannot get an FM ALS, then ask the hire company for a musician's in ear monitoring system. Get two receivers (same frequency) and buy a neck loop with a 3.5mm plug. Use the neck loop in place of the usual IEM headphones and you have your very own FM ALS made from more readily available parts. The neck loop is handy for you to keep and listen to your MP3 player with!

Simon Lewis

 

[GR1]

I agree with Simon. Use an In Ear Monitor system normally used for on stage foldback with 2 receivers. They are quick to set up, easy to hire and easy to use. Cabling an inductive loop into a tent floor can be fiddly and takes time, with the IEM you will have freedom to move around the tent unless it is of palatial proportions.