Does a degree matter?

[jordanashley]

Hello all,

 

I have recently got a place at SSR to do Live Sound Engineering and Design.

I am torn between whether to go and accept the place or not.

 

Here is a little background on me:

 

I have worked for the last 4-5 years as a Sound Engineer/Technician and have covered some large and high profile events. I have experience covering lighting installation and also stage fitting such as curtain track etc. Some of the people I have worked with includes the Grand National, the Royal Welsh Agricultural Society, The Shrewsbury Horticultural Society, Cheshire Show, Stephen Gately.

This year was supposedly my gap year - instead of relaxing I have gone self employed, VAT registered and have had a very busy and successful year, working regularly as a performance technician at a theatre in Liverpool, as well as covering my usual annual events listed above.

 

Going to university for 3 years may mean I lose my existing contacts and have to start from scratch - it may mean that when I finish I am not in a better position to where I am now.

 

What I want to know is: Will lack of a degree hold me back in future life, or will my experience count for more with employers than my qualifications? I am booked in to do more 'industry training' such as PASMA, IPAF and I have completed my driving licence part B+E so I can tow trailers. I been to PLASA London and Leeds for the past 4 years and have also built up several contacts in the industry. My work is accredited by Sennheiser UK and they have permitted me to use all their branding across my business stationary.

 

Thank you,

 

Jordan

[Grum]

Hi Jordan,

 

I left school in 1995 with 4 GCSE's and a little experience at a local venue. The day after I left school I walked straight in to my first job and my lack of qualifications never held me back until after a disabling injury I was forced to re-start my career at the age of 24. I started applying for jobs that I would previously stood a good chance of getting and was told that I was under qualified despite 8 years of experience ranging from casual show crew through to designing TV studio installations for the BBC. One job I applied for said that they would only consider interviewing me for a casual post (rather than the full time one I applied for) due to my lack of qualifications however at the interview they changed their minds once they actually read my CV.

 

If you are ever going to apply for a job within a large organisation then the person who filters the applications won't care about your experience, they will be looking to see if your qualifications fit the required profile compared to the other applicants. Not having a degree will put you at a significant disadvantage compared to almost anyone who has come into the industry within the last 10 years. This may not be an issue right now as you have the contacts and can get the work but you never know what the future holds and it may be that your end up getting passed over for a job due to the lack of a degree despite having spent 10 years working FOH for someone like U2.

 

My advice would be to get on the degree course, do the bare minimum to get by whilst doing as much work as you can for your existing contacts. While you're at uni you will make a whole load of new contacts who will progress through their own careers and become useful contacts before you know it. You will end up with a degree to tick future boxes, a load of contacts and a bit more experience than you currently have making you a great option for future employers.

 

I friend of mine had the same dilemma as you three years ago, he did what I'm suggesting you do. He's now coming to the end of his degree but while he was there he was able to come out on three tours with me and also picked up a load of work with the rental companies I use. He now has two artists he designs for and has just returned from a tour of Australia. I have no doubt that within a couple of years I will be competing with him for work.

[kerry davies]

To some extent I would agree and disagree with Grum. You may get the "in" with a degree that you won't without one but it is the skills which no degree can teach that will keep you employed. I would suggest that if you have 5 years experience then a specialised degree would be of less use and be a boring time for you. However a degree is a good measure of a persons general abilities and always expands the mind.

 

A different anecdote is my sorta dorta who dropped out of a music management and production degree to work in film, had a great time but saw that she would go mad if she stayed. She is now serving with the RAF in a bunker somewhere and because of her work is doing an OU degree in PPE, how different can you get?

 

As long as you keep doing what you are doing, earning and learning in equal measure, then keep doing it. You can always get a distance learning degree while doing so. In today's economic climate, like this, I would be reluctant to take on the expense of a degree while actually making a living. By the time you are fully available again the climate will be entirely different. Probably worse.

[Jivemaster]

How do you expect to be engaged for the next years? If you will be self employed you will be your own "personnel department" and attach what value that you want to a degree vs work experience. If you may want to go into employment then sometime the person specification for a post will say graduate or something like and you will not get the job without.

 

Talk to the establishment and see whether you will be able to do the course AND do your work.

 

A degree may be an investment in your future, but as you already have real work coming in you need not sacrifice that for a huge student debt.

[jordanashley]

Thank you very much for the replies, It is a very difficult decision. I think at the minute I am reluctant to tie myself down to a full 3 year course. I may look at doing a 6 month course or something similar, which will give me that qualification without having to go through all the basics again. Not an easy choice to make!

One of my good friends will, in the next 2 years, own one of the biggest outdoor PA hire firms in the midlands (possibly even the UK for the sort of work we do) and he said I will never be without work.

One of the other companies I work for are looking at retiring and selling up - and the question has always been there whether I could take over or not. They will probably retire in the next 3 years so going away for this length of time would mean I will probably miss out.

I'm just not sure of the value a degree in sound is going to add

 

 

Cheers

Jordan

[ImagineerTom]

Whether YOU need a degree is entirely subjective - have YOU lost jobs / been turned down for jobs because you haven't got a degree? If so then it's seriously worth considering getting one. If you're busy enough already, haven't been turned down because of a lack of degree and indeed have been offered other long-term opportunities that are not in any way dependent on a degree then there's no point you wasting 3 years of your life getting one.

[paulears]

If you are already working, then taking a break of 3 years will wreck many contacts, and cost you dearly - so why not keep working, and do an OU Degree - pretty well everyone on them are a little bit older, and you work mainly on your own with a small number of get-togethers, and you go a your own pace, building credits. It's a well respected degree nowadays, and the only downside is it's not your work subject, but does that really matter? This way you work, you earn and educate yourself!

[Jivemaster]

Three years out will stall your career, it's a big risk. Doing a distance learning course OU or similar will possibly help with business and finance issues should you take on a whole hire business.

 

Maybe an approved electrician ticket would be good too.

[indyld]

I haven't weighed into this one so far, mainly because I broadly agree with what has been said about staying in the game when you are in a seemingly good position. If you would like a degree, maybe leave that for a while as you really establish yourself still further and consider studying with the OU or similar as people have suggested.

 

The reason for now posting is that yesterday I received an email from one of our recent graduates who is coming to the end of a contract and looking for further work. He was recently were shortlisted for a 16k a year technician job in a school and met the other candidates at interview. The graduate lost out on the job due to lack of experience, being up against candidates which he felt "completely dwarfed" his own good experience, them having many years touring and West End work. One candidate in his late 30s. and obviously a long time pro. He was emailing me to ask what he could do against competition that maybe had more time served than he'd been alive!

 

In a market where 16k attracts this level of competition, I think that anyone managing to make headway right now would be silly to take 3 years out. It's tough out there.

[Rax]

If you are ever going to apply for a job within a large organisation then the person who filters the applications won't care about your experience, they will be looking to see if your qualifications fit the required profile compared to the other applicants. Not having a degree will put you at a significant disadvantage compared to almost anyone who has come into the industry within the last 10 years.

I have been that person Grum refers to. I would score each application against the 'person specification'. If having a degree was not in the person specification as laid out in the job advert, then possessing a degree made no difference to the score. Where a degree could help out is in satisfying other parts of the job ad e.g. a Tonmeister graduate from Surrey might expect to pick up some points for "...an interest in music technology and recording..." without further ado. Having said that, Grum is quite right in that most new entrants do have a degree and it is always reassuring when a candidate has received formal training (degree or vocational) over say, being "self-taught".

 

To my mind, if you are doing quite nicely, carry on as you are especially with your vocational courses. Try and get a "Creative Industries Safety Passport" too, and I trust you have liability insurance.

[David Lee]

My 2p. Seeing some of the job adverts recently, the level of pay just doesn't justify getting an industry related degree and the debt that comes with it. Personally I think people would be better getting specific licences I.e ipaf, telehandler, or equipment related training.

 

If you want a degree you should be looking for something that helps in the wider world that may lead to well paid

employment.

[GaryNattrass]

Do the degree and then SSR may offer you a job lecturing at £20 an hour, you will have to do all the research in your own time and pay your own travel and accommodation though but hey they will pay you for 7 hours work per week, 3.5 on Tuesday and 3.5 on Thursday!

 

But there again maybe my 33 years experience was more attractive to them than a degree? http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

[erroneousblack]

I'm from the generation where you couldn't even do a degree. I know many put of by the cost, who have gone out and worked in the industry and thrived. I also had one member of staff who did have a Degree who sneeringly told me "that's not a Fresnel, that's a 743"!

[indyld]

I'm from the generation where you couldn't even do a degree. I know many put of by the cost, who have gone out and worked in the industry and thrived. I also had one member of staff who did have a Degree who sneeringly told me "that's not a Fresnel, that's a 743"!

 

All I can think of is Crocodile Dundee style "That's not a fresnel, THIS is a fresnel" <pulls out a 243 and holds it next to the Minim F>

 

Presumably it was a 743. What would be funnier is if it was, in fact, a 223. I remember the day that Dave got a 263 confused with a 264.Laugh? I nearly..... :** laughs out loud **:

 

Wonder how much mileage there is in a whole joke book themed around theatre lanterns. Well, us technical nerds must have their fun somehow. And I speak as someone that recently made a cardiod sub array gag that only 10% of those in the theatre at the time actually understood. Myself, the sound lecturer and the student Sound Designer!

[erroneousblack]

It exasperated me, that someone who had a Degree, didn't know what part of a lantern made a Fresnel a Fresnel. The local crew I knew were thick, but I thought she would understand. This was also the same day that the locals thought "Stones In His Pockets" was a Rolling Stones tribute band!