Budget Wireless Microphones

[Smifis]

Hi there.

 

A little bit of background. We operate a holiday club on the east coast of england and will be opening early may. But we need some new equipment!

We are in the market for a few Budget microphones for karaoke and kids and one "semi-budget" microphone for ours ents team.

For the past 3 years, we've used our Sennheiser EW100 mic and has served us well, we've also had a gemini (something, not sure on the model number) which wasn't too bad and a pair of god awful Kam mics. One day last year the sennheiser suddenly stopped working, as did both kams - foul play came to mind but thats another story! So we coped on the one gemini and two wires mics for the last 2 weeks of the season.

So now its about the start all over, we need to get something sorted as far as mics. I have been browsing ebay for some bargains but haven't seen anything come up that isn't super cehaper. really, we do need a 2nd presenter mic and is the main priorty.

Ideally I'd like to spend around the £70 mark for a presenter mic - handheld, vocal work 7 days a wekk, 7 hours a day so it needs to be decent. well, whats decent, something that doesn't sounds like its came from pound land will have to do until we have some more money.

And we do needs some mics for karaoke, As little as pos on these, but it needs to be good enough so that if we're a present mic down, we can use one of these. looking to spend no more than £50 each for these, we are looking at 2 or 3 of them.

I had found these on ebay, and was wondering what you guys think of this, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350748362211?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649, not been able to find any reviews so I'm going on a whim here.

 

Cheers.

Tom.

[cedd]

Keep an eye out for used JTS mics. They're not exactly "budget" new (well, they are when compared to Sennheiser and Trantec) but don't seem to hold much resale value so they often go for a song second hand. I'm still using 4 of their beltpack systems in channel 70 for school hires and they've never put a foot wrong. The handhelds are nice and robust too. Bit of a funny battery change system on the handheld - you unscrew the capsule and then the drawer slides out. Never had any problems myself, but I could foresee that maybe after a long period of daily usage something might wear. That said it's probably going to be the case with similar moving parts with other brands.

Sadly it's quite hard to speak with any certainty about if something will or won't work well at that end of the market. Some people use absolute bargain basement rubbish for years without a single problem, and others just never seem to have any luck.

[pritch]

You need to be super careful if you're buying this sort of kit from the US (such as your ebay link); firstly, the kit may or may not work on 240v.

 

Secondly, and very importantly - kit that works on US radio mic frequencies may not be legal for use in the UK; this could have a few different implications:

 

• 
   
  
• You struggle to get it working at all
  
• You find that your local taxi company come loud and clear over your PA
  
• Your local taxi company find that you're coming loud and clear over their radios, complain to Ofcom, who track you down and slap you with a not inconsiderable fine
  

[Smifis]

Hi cedd,

With the low budget stuff, if it dies, its in the bin and has been my philosophy for a while but money is so unbelievably tight right now! Especially since one of the bar staff turned the music up so loud he took 2 compression drivers out, melted a crossover, and blown one of the 15" drivers. Expensive month!

 

I will have a look on ebay for JTS mics and see what turns up, its not actually a brand I've heard of before. I am still vbery tempted with the vocopro mics buts I wouldn't buy them without a recommendation.

 

Cheers,

 

You need to be super careful if you're buying this sort of kit from the US (such as your ebay link); firstly, the kit may or may not work on 240v.

 

Secondly, and very importantly - kit that works on US radio mic frequencies may not be legal for use in the UK; this could have a few different implications:

 

• You struggle to get it working at all
• You find that your local taxi company come loud and clear over your PA
• Your local taxi company find that you're coming loud and clear over their radios, complain to Ofcom, who track you down and slap you with a not inconsiderable fine

 

Cheers mate.

 

I have a cupboard of transformers so I'm sure I could sort something out, I used to be a sparky.

I had checked with the frequencies, and after digging through my ebay messages the frequencies are VHF E: 190.60 MHz (yellow) VHF F: 204.40 MHz (pink) VHF G: 196.50 MHz (light blue) VHF H: 209.50 MHz (purple) and as fair as I'm aware is in the licence exempt band.

[Simon Lewis]

Those ebay mics might just manage karaoke, but it's not going to be too good. Furthermore, you'd need to buy a new mains adaptor with the right plug and voltage. Lastly, you might just be able to licence frequencies they use (if the other specs meet the requirements), but your licence will probably cost more than the mics.

 

Out of the box, they are not legal to use, and the main website even has a warning that they cannot be shipped overseas.

 

I would suggest seeing if you can get your old mics repaired. If that's not possible, I'd suggest using the cheapest Trantecs as a sensible starting point.

[Smifis]

I was looking at some Trantec mics and seem a sensible price. I was also looking at getting a sennheiser freeport (which I believe are indeed made by Trantecs!) but they dont come up very often 2nd hand, but syaing they, they're only around the £140 new so I doubt they hold any real value.

 

Oh and another thing has crossed my mind, has anyone played with the w-audio wireless microphones? How bad are they?

[paulears]

The thing to remember with radio microphones is that they are unreliable. How much so depends on their technical performance and their physical construction.

 

For what it's worth, Trantecs are pretty good products, and if they can be obtained cheap enough for your budget, I'd go with them over any toy brands.

 

All the frequencies you mentioned are 'old' - the digital changeover did impact on VHF too, and the free channels and the ones you are using (that need a license) were involved in changes. The frequencies on your list are not the standard ones in use - but I think JFMG will add them to your license as a NoV if asked - IF they find them clear in your area. The snag with where you are is that with DAB - and our geographical location on the coast, interference from DAB users abroad is quite possible, especially in the summer months (if/when) the temperature rises. Anglia Railways scrapped their expensive radio signalling system recently because the European harmonisation made the frequencies it uses - very close to some of your channels - unreliable. The number of holiday centres along our coast also makes radio systems dodgy, ignoring all the karaoke users in pubs and clubs. There are still lots of people locally running in ch69,because ch70 where they should now be is too busy - especially on the seafront pub/club area, hopefully far away enough from you to not trouble you.

 

I'm in and out of holiday centres in the area all the time, and almost every one of them have trouble from time to time. VHF is perhaps safer than UHF in our area because few professional venues use cheap music industry radio systems - Sennheiser is by far the most common in the holiday industry.

 

What are the dangers, for you in using VHF? Potential interference from other local users and radio broadcasting from Holland. Don't dismiss this, if you are right on the coast, a few miles inland may make it rarer. Three or four years ago, at the Britannia Pier Theatre, one act with an old VHF radio system on a guitar had a strange swirly noise during sound check. Turning the guitar transmitter off revealed a Dutch voice, obviously in a bar or club. It dropped off as soon as the temperature dropped (tropospheric ducting - the cause if you want to Google it). The other issue is probably lifespan when the ents team destroy them. Performance can usually be ok - but be aware that cheap ones use a dynamic mic element often found in the less than £10 handheld mic types - usually dull, muddy and prone to feedback.

 

For your handhelds for karaoke - buy a dirt cheap set of 3 Behringers, the local colleges use them and they're not bad at all. If management are mean and tight - warn them about the license requirement - PMSE is required, plus possible NoV for frequencies not on the usual list.

[Smifis]

Hey there,

 

Thanks for you input, the more the better right? Were actually at Hemsby near the old Pontins site so pretty close the hemsby beach..."beach". http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif

 

You wont believe how gutter we are that the sennheiser had broke though, feels like someone cut our arm off, we had asked someone to look at it but we were told it would cost too much to repair, I'd say otherwise but hey ho. I've recently discovered the sennheiser parts website so might have a go myself when I get the time.

 

Trantects definitely look high up on the menu right now so will keep an eye up for those, as well as the JTS stuff. You wouldn't happen to have anything you want to get rid of do you?!

 

SO I'll avoid VHF due to being on the coast, damn dutch.

[cedd]

As well as the JTS kit I'll second Paul's suggestion of Trantec. Whilst I run their higher end S5.3 systems, another local sound engineer (timtheenchanter on the Blue Room) uses the S4.16 systems on shows and they seem pretty reliable.

 

If interference does become a problem then it might be worth looking at the Line6 2.4GHz systems. There's a very lengthy thread on them somewhere on here, which mainly focuses on the XD-V70 and V75 systems, but they also make an XD-V30 and XD-V35 which are a slightly lower end product. I have experience with the XD-V70's (I now own 6 systems) and it's all been good so far. Thomann have the XD-V30's quite cheap at the minute (The V-70 and V-30 are the older model, replaced by the V-75 and V-35 respectively) and the V-35's at not a lot more (with significantly increased range, or so it says).

http://www.thomann.de/gb/line6_xdv35.htm

 

I know Paul has experience of the V-70 handhelds (mine are all beltpacks) and I think had an issue with mechanical failure of the battery tube, but I can't think of anybody using the lower end systems to suggest you chat with.

[paulears]

Hemsby isn't close enough to the other busy areas, so you'd probably get away with almost anything - and weather has a lot to do with interference. The coastal strip used to suffer almost every hotter summer with (where I am in Lowestoft) BBC2 just vanishing and being replaced with foreign TV. The only helpful thing is that transmitter to receiver distance is usually short enough to guarantee decent signal strength. I'm loath to suggest it, but now that channel 69 kit is recognised as short shelf life in busier parts of the country, many people are selling them off cheaply on ebay. In addition, there are often counterfeit Sennheisers on ebay mixed in, so beware - but I've had some of these by accident, and they actually perform ok - the main problem is the mics suffer from handling noise - as do most cheap ones with cables! If you can pick up some for silly money - why not?

[richardash1981]

Oh and another thing has crossed my mind, has anyone played with the w-audio wireless microphones? How bad are they?

 

I've got a W-05 set, but:

• It's VHF (fixed to 175.0 MHz)
• The beltpack has a very low AF gain (even at max), so other than with a headset mic very close to the mouth, you can't get enough level to be clear of the noise
• The hand-held is similarly low gain, you can't adjust it
• The gain varies with signal strength a lot - I tried to measure it and ended up with a curve that looked more like a compressor than a microphone!
• The receiver is very prone to breakthrough from other VHF channels

That said, I have used the hand-held reasonable sucessfully in places with loads of feedback margin, and speakers who are skilled enough to keep the mic very close to their mic and speak clearly!

I have tried running alongside a Shure 174.5 MHz system and that is OK. Tried with an AT liberator at 174.2 MHz, OK. But if both are on, it breaks through drastically and the Waudio can't cope at all.

[johnny-t-goode]

Sorry to jump in on this, I've been looking at the Line 6 wireless kit, for example the VD30 with the guitar cable option, for a local company and was wondering if all six channels work together well or is there any cross talk? I have been holding out for the company to raise funds for a Trantec system, however six of the VD30's are within the budget they have at present. I know the Line 6 gear is solid just concerned about how close the 6 channels sit when used together.

 

Thanks

[Shez]

The Line6 kit is digital - crosstalk isn't really a concept that can be applied in the same way as with analogue. Their six channels will work quite happily together with no issues.

[johnny-t-goode]

The Line6 kit is digital - crosstalk isn't really a concept that can be applied in the same way as with analogue. Their six channels will work quite happily together with no issues.

 

Thanks Shez :-)

[paulears]

Looking at cheap radio kit - the real question is that if the system is £50, then how much is the microphone part worth? Would you be happy with the sound of a £10 dynamic mic? Crispy nice audio with clarity isn't usually something cheap wired mics of this price level can manage, is it?