HD recording solution

[OllieDuff]

I'm trying to come up with a solution to record feeds from a projection source and an HD camera at a conference venue, including a stereo audio feed. Key requirements are as follows:

 

- Able to record two video inputs at 1080p, and two balanced audio inputs; physical connections will be HDMI from the vision mixer, a choice of either HD-SDI or HDMI from the camera, and a choice of either a pair of balanced XLR or balanced jacks for audio.

 

- Able to record at least a full day (ten or so hours) of conference sessions without interruption.

 

- The recorded file should be in a suitable format to be edited by Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premiere Pro or comparable packages. The two video streams and the audio stream should be synchronised, so that it could later have transitions between the feeds, pic-in-pic or similar effects. The file should also be compressed such that a client could take away a couple of days of recording on a sensibly-sized external hard drive (say 500GB/1TB).

 

The ability to record in analogue video formats (at least RGBHV, ideally composite and S-Video as well) would be useful in case of legacy equipment or utter catastrophe (or some combination of the two!), but is not essential.

 

Currently I'm looking at the Blackmagic HyperDeck series, but the choice is between a single-channel recording device for £700 or a four-channel recording device for £1350, with precious little in between. The Powers That Be are willing to drop substantial money on this to do it properly, but cost is a factor.

 

We do have a "recording computer", but it was specified for analogue audio recording about five years ago, and so doesn't have suitable specs to support the hardware we need; however, a solution which does the recording externally but uses the PC (Windows 7) as a controller would be satisfactory. Once we've captured the recording data, we pass it off either to the client or to a third party for post-production editing, so we don't need a full editing suite.

 

Any advice on buying off-the-shelf is welcome, we would also be willing to talk to suppliers who can deliver a complete package to this specification.

[ferretwrangler]

Can I suggest you investigate the Atomos product range - Samurai = SDI and Ninja = HDMI only 1 input but will record as prores or Avid and can esily do 10+hrs at a time on spinning platter drives unlike the Blackmagic products - also cheaper.

[Pete McCrea]

I've recently heard that the BlackMagic Hyper Drive studio does not embed analogue audio onto the video file... I trust my source, but worth double checking for yourself.

 

They looked perfect as an alternative to the Aja Ki Pro's...

[dbuckley]

Have you considered lecture capture solutions? These systems can typically capture twin synchronized video and audio. I'd assume you wont need the scheduling, post processing and delivery options, but the capture bit might be just what you need.

[bruce]

I also was going to suggest looking at lecture capture solutions. Some names to check out are Echo360, SonicFoundry, Panopto, Planet eStream, and many more...

[lite_lad]

If your looking to edit in Premiere afterwards a software solution of Adobe OnLocation (im sure its that one if not one of the other in the Creative Suite) allows you to do this and easily downsize in media encoder or stick straight into premiere...

 

personally I would run it on a mac pro with capture cards

 

other alternative to Blackmagic decks are the AJA equivalent http://www.aja.com/en/products/ki-pro-family/

[Peter F]

I've recently heard that the BlackMagic Hyper Drive studio does not embed analogue audio onto the video file... I trust my source, but worth double checking for yourself.

 

I just happen to be looking at those right now as well, so following your note I asked Blackmagic.

Here is the reply

 

If you were to use the HyperDeck Studio Pro, this workflow would be possible. You would be able to take video from HDI, SDI, and Component sources, and implement audio through the external analog audio connectors. When you then record the files to an SSD through the device, the audio will be embedded with that particular file. The HyperDeck Studio will not be able to carry out this process, as it only has SDI and HDMI connections available,meaning the audio have to be embedded onto the input the feed. It is the HyperDeck Studio Pro that can carry out the function that you require.

 

So, yes, the basic Studio model does not embed audio, although it will record audio that is already embedded.

The Studio Pro will embed analogue for you.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

[OllieDuff]

I've recently heard that the BlackMagic Hyper Drive studio does not embed analogue audio onto the video file... I trust my source, but worth double checking for yourself.

 

I just happen to be looking at those right now as well, so following your note I asked Blackmagic.

Here is the reply

 

If you were to use the HyperDeck Studio Pro, this workflow would be possible. You would be able to take video from HDI, SDI, and Component sources, and implement audio through the external analog audio connectors. When you then record the files to an SSD through the device, the audio will be embedded with that particular file. The HyperDeck Studio will not be able to carry out this process, as it only has SDI and HDMI connections available,meaning the audio have to be embedded onto the input the feed. It is the HyperDeck Studio Pro that can carry out the function that you require.

 

So, yes, the basic Studio model does not embed audio, although it will record audio that is already embedded.

The Studio Pro will embed analogue for you.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

 

My congratulations - you managed to get a hell of a lot more help out of Blackmagic support than I did...

 

Thanks to everyone for your advice, I've got plenty of food for thought. To those advising a Mac-based solution, I did look into it but the cost of a PCIe card which can do dual recording with the appropriate physical connections is horribly expensive, especially once added to the cost of the Mac Pro with suitably large storage and Adobe Creative Production Premium.

 

Where do people stand on SSD vs spinning platters for video recording?

[techywhizz]

I've recently heard that the BlackMagic Hyper Drive studio does not embed analogue audio onto the video file... I trust my source, but worth double checking for yourself.

 

I just happen to be looking at those right now as well, so following your note I asked Blackmagic.

Here is the reply

 

If you were to use the HyperDeck Studio Pro, this workflow would be possible. You would be able to take video from HDI, SDI, and Component sources, and implement audio through the external analog audio connectors. When you then record the files to an SSD through the device, the audio will be embedded with that particular file. The HyperDeck Studio will not be able to carry out this process, as it only has SDI and HDMI connections available,meaning the audio have to be embedded onto the input the feed. It is the HyperDeck Studio Pro that can carry out the function that you require.

 

So, yes, the basic Studio model does not embed audio, although it will record audio that is already embedded.

The Studio Pro will embed analogue for you.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

 

Interesting... I'm not convinced. Black magic have told us that if you when you give the Hyperdeck Pro an HD/SDI signal that it won't record the analog audio. The only recorded audio has to be embedded on the HD/SDI Input

[ferretwrangler]

And the Atomos Samurai and Ninja will happy record embedded and external inputs simultaneously. And all with a screen for £6-700.

[Matt Riley]

+1 for the Atomos Ninja (although it may take some work to rackmount them.) You would need 2 to record both the camera and the vision mixer feed, but they can record about 10 hours of Prores on a 1tb 2.5" spinning platter drive, and you could also use the LANC input to sync the recording start.

 

If there's a bit more cash you could get the Atomos Ronin, which is designed for fixed location recording and a pair can easily be rack mounted.

[Peter F]

Interesting... I'm not convinced. Black magic have told us that if you when you give the Hyperdeck Pro an HD/SDI signal that it won't record the analog audio. The only recorded audio has to be embedded on the HD/SDI Input

 

I will try to get hold of a demo unit and try it out for myself.

 

Watch this space...

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

[Pete McCrea]

It's be good to get a definite hands on experience on it...

[paulears]

If your looking to edit in Premiere afterwards a software solution of Adobe OnLocation (im sure its that one if not one of the other in the Creative Suite) allows you to do this and easily downsize in media encoder or stick straight into premiere...

 

Onlocation can only do a single stream, and for info is being replaced in the production and creative packs by a totally new product in Mayish

[sleepytom]

Some of the devices mentioned may have trouble with 1080p - what vision mixer are you using which is sending 1080p (is it real 50p or 25p or PsF or ?)

 

I have all the different versions of the hyperdeck, they are now working adequately on the latest firmware. Maybe in the future they wil add better audio routing options (at the moment the hyperdeck studio pro can record either embedded OR analog audio, I'd like to have both really with a choice of which channels to put the analog embed on)

 

As ever with BMD what the product does now is a fraction of the supposed spec, hopefully they wil add features in future firmware but their is no published timescale for updates nor even a proposed roadmap.

 

If anyone would like anything specific testing on the hyperdeck (or the ninja v1 for that matter) then please let me know, I'm doing a lot of testing at the moment so have the gear setup.