Theatre lighting board

[Pattern123]

I haven't actually used the TLXtra, it looks on paper better than the Jester ML - which I detest with a passion almost as great as my hatred for our Frog, I know the Solution is the 'logical' replacement for the Frog, but I am worried that it's just as bleeding huge, and the parameter wheels look just as rubbish (Are they? Anyone who has one to replace a Frog, are they as bad as the ones on the Frog? - i.e.: they either go a mile too far or not far enough when you nudge them, and pop into the desk whenever a ham-fisted student looks at them?) I know the software is 'completely new' but it still looks like the same shoddy programming ethos which is a pain in the arse for programming generics combined with movers and LED's on a theatre show. The TLXtra at least offers command chain programming for generics, even if there is no 'hands on' fader control for generics (Probably a blessing if they are Zero 88 Faders frankly, since about half of the faders including the master and FX master on our Frog are now dodgy and it's only 4 years old) I really wish someone would make a small decent 1-2 universe desk which is affordable and actually works easily and intuitively, they really would clean up. I almost went for the Titan Mobile, but it's just too complex for Students and Teachers. The Strand offering is a joke, the ADB ones are too pricey and you can't find a decent distributor anyway, and the ETC offerings are either too American (Smartfade ML - which I like a lot, but it's just too quirky and American) or the Element - which just isn't right and is far too much money. I think I'll just live with a half dead Frog until it either dies or someone comes out with something that works.

[Kazeja]

"That would be great but we are Belgium based."

 

 

You say that you are Belgium based. Have you had a look at the ADB consoles? ADB based in Brussels?

 

K

[kaareolai]

"That would be great but we are Belgium based."

You say that you are Belgium based. Have you had a look at the ADB consoles? ADB based in Brussels?

 

I have played abit with the ADB Mentor and alike, and did not like the LSC - ADB connection. LSC-part was ok, but lacking uptodate implementation from ADB on hardware and ISIS OS.

 

But the new Hathor implementation is much more interesting (E-Go derivat). Made by Yngve Sandboe of Norway, the man behind E-Go/Pre-Go, Sandnet and partly AVAB Viking software etc.

 

 

Regards Kåre Olai

[jonhole]

but I am worried that it's just as bleeding huge

There's a limitation on how small you can make a console with 63 and 131 physical faders :-)

 

 

they either go a mile too far or not far enough when you nudge them

ZerOS manages the wheels, with settings to make them more or less sensitive. ZerOS takes into account the SPEED, not the DISTANCE you move the faders - so a slow movement gives you very exact movements, whereas a fast movement will give you a very coarse movement.

 

 

I know the software is 'completely new' but it still looks like the same shoddy programming ethos which is a pain in the arse for programming generics combined with movers and LED's on a theatre show.

Programming is really easy - it's a three step process: 1) Create the scene, 2) Select somewhere to store it, 3) press record. If you are programming memories for a theatre show, ZerOS automatically selects the next available memory, which removes the need for step two in most situations. There's a full 'programmer' and 'blind programmer', and the console is fully tracking, so you can be as specific as you like about what you record into palettes / submasters etc.

 

 

The TLXtra at least offers command chain programming for generics

So does the Solution - go into 'special', go onto Page 2 and select 'enable command line'. You can then either use the number pad on the Multi Function Keys, or use a USB number pad.

 

 

Probably a blessing if they are Zero 88 Faders frankly, since about half of the faders including the master and FX master on our Frog are now dodgy and it's only 4 years old

Have you phoned us about the problem? We discontinued the Frog range around five and a half years ago, but still stock spare faders etc. It does sounds like something has happened to your console if you have such a high failure rate on the faders.

 

 

Maybe you could give me a call and we could talk through your problems and get them sorted for you?

[Nicktaylor]

I haven't actually used the TLXtra, it looks on paper better than the Jester ML - which I detest with a passion almost as great as my hatred for our Frog, I know the Solution is the 'logical' replacement for the Frog, but I am worried that it's just as bleeding huge, and the parameter wheels look just as rubbish (Are they? Anyone who has one to replace a Frog, are they as bad as the ones on the Frog? - i.e.: they either go a mile too far or not far enough when you nudge them, and pop into the desk whenever a ham-fisted student looks at them?) I know the software is 'completely new' but it still looks like the same shoddy programming ethos which is a pain in the arse for programming generics combined with movers and LED's on a theatre show. The TLXtra at least offers command chain programming for generics, even if there is no 'hands on' fader control for generics (Probably a blessing if they are Zero 88 Faders frankly, since about half of the faders including the master and FX master on our Frog are now dodgy and it's only 4 years old) I really wish someone would make a small decent 1-2 universe desk which is affordable and actually works easily and intuitively, they really would clean up. I almost went for the Titan Mobile, but it's just too complex for Students and Teachers. The Strand offering is a joke, the ADB ones are too pricey and you can't find a decent distributor anyway, and the ETC offerings are either too American (Smartfade ML - which I like a lot, but it's just too quirky and American) or the Element - which just isn't right and is far too much money. I think I'll just live with a half dead Frog until it either dies or someone comes out with something that works.

You sound pretty un lucky with your Zero 88 kit. I have had a Frog for ten years and it has never gone wrong. It is a hire one as well! What venue are you in? the worst treated desks I have ever seen are in education establishments. the pupils never ever take care of the gear, even if there are some technicians who do care some will drop food and drink on the desk and not admit to it.

[Pattern123]

You sound pretty unlucky with your Zero 88 kit.

 

Not too unlucky, yes we are a School, but the desk doesn't get heavy use, and was only here for a year before I started. It was only purchased some 4 years ago. The faders are just dodgy at the top or bottom of their range, they flicker, the Grand Master gets stuck at about 80% and you have to wiggle it to get it to 100%. It only gets moved half a dozen times a year and used about three times as many days. Yes, it is operated by students, and sometimes moved by them. The Alcora we have is even worse with at least half a dozen faders being replaced in the past three years, that does get more abuse in the Studio, mainly from Teachers who seem to think it's a handy table to leave stuff on top of. Perhaps I'm a little over vitriolic about the Frog, I have 'got used' to it now and programming a show isn't quite as bad now I am used to it's foibles and can avoid the worst consequences. But I do find it exasperating that no-one can come up with anything better. I'll have to master our Titan One and get that working with QLab, then we can avoid having one altogether.

[dbuckley]

I'll have to master our Titan One and get that working with QLab, then we can avoid having one altogether.

 

Frankly, with all that love and attention your kit must get, I'd suspect they'll be as tonked in a few years as the Frog is now.

 

There is a big difference between "buggered", which it sounds like a goodly proportion of your faders are, and that you dont get on with the desk's workflow.

 

The buggeration can be fixed. The workflow, thats a different matter.

[light-man]

I haven't actually used the TLXtra, it looks on paper better than the Jester ML - which I detest with a passion almost as great as my hatred for our Frog,

 

I use a Jester TLXtra regularly.

 

We actually got it to replace a Strand GSX - layout & features wise, its quite similar, with the obvious addition of the ML section. 200 generic channels and then MLs after that.

 

I absolutely hate the fact there's only 10 faders for the sub-masters when busking (it just meets my needs for our PARs & LEDs and chases), however I believe you can extend this using an extra console. I rarely use it for MLs, we've only got 3 Showtec 20w LED ones that don't really match my 16Kw of PARs and 8K of Fresnels on stage (they were bought for a specific funded project, so I'm not too fussed and its not money wasted!). I don't particularly like the shape generator, but its better than none. The cue stack is simple and easy to use IMO, with cue & subs naming via on-board keys or external USB keyboard.

 

For a busking console with generics or a few LEDs, though, it'd be fine!

 

 

 

[Ah Clem]

I manufacture the BlueLite X1 (and X1-Mini) DMX controllers. It's a hardware device(s) connected to your PC or laptop and the BlueLite software offers you the ability to control up to 16 DMX universes (should you need that many) of equipment using the 24 Submasters to control up to 1,000,000 cues. It offers SMPTE timecode, MIDI capabilities, and we've even released our first mobil app, iPanel, to control our Live Panel console using your iOS or Android device. You can control everything from simple dimmer packs and/or LED fixtures to moving lights or DMX capable media servers.

 

You can connect any DMX controller to use as an external control desk to control the BlueLite's Submasters, which means you can have both the option of using the highly flexible DMX control offered by using our X1 system and still having your console for control while sill being able to just bypass the X1 system and have control using just your console. Since the X1-Mini sells for $399 (one universe) and the X1 is only $999 (four universes) and you can connect up to 4 of either type (4 or 16 universes total), as your needs expand into needing more universes, your console wil not become obsolete due to an insufficent number of output channels.

 

I'll be happy to answer any questions you have so feel free to e-mail me and I can walk you through the system (you might want to take a look at the video link on our home page) .

[Pattern123]

Frankly, with all that love and attention your kit must get, I'd suspect they'll be as tonked in a few years as the Frog is now.

 

Since they are both software based, then probably not, students seem to respect computers more than 'hardware', and are much more used to moving them around, we have laptops that are much older than the Frog, and still function. Also the Titan software can be used by students on their own laptops, as can QLab. We can then keep the Frog for day-to-day Teacher use/abuse to put up a few lights until it dies, and use Titan & Qlab for shows. Cheaper and easier.

 

 

 

[Brian]

[The faders are just dodgy at the top or bottom of their range...

A classic symptom of someone having given the desk a dose of liquid or something dusty/fluffy.

[mitranator]

Yes, I did but they not fit my needs. there is no console with enough physical sliders to match my requirements.

 

 

 

 

 

"That would be great but we are Belgium based."

 

 

You say that you are Belgium based. Have you had a look at the ADB consoles? ADB based in Brussels?

 

K

[Tomo]

Yes, I did but they not fit my needs. there is no console with enough physical sliders to match my requirements.

How many sliders do you need?

 

The ETC/AVAB Congo Family is quite popular in Belgium.

Congo Kid gives you 40 physical sliders that can be used as submasters or slider-per-channel,

Moving up to Congo jr lets you add "Wings" for up to 80 physical sliders in blocks of 20 or 40.

 

In the ETC Eos Family, ETC Element has 40 or 60 physical sliders, and a hardware switch for "fader-per-channel"/"submaster" modes.

Moving up to an Ion adds physical encoders and supports wings for up to 240 physical sliders.

 

It's worth having a chat with FACE about demos.

[mitranator]

Yes, I did but they not fit my needs. there is no console with enough physical sliders to match my requirements.

How many sliders do you need?

 

The ETC/AVAB Congo Family is quite popular in Belgium.

Congo Kid gives you 40 physical sliders that can be used as submasters or slider-per-channel,

Moving up to Congo jr lets you add "Wings" for up to 80 physical sliders in blocks of 20 or 40.

 

In the ETC Eos Family, ETC Element has 40 or 60 physical sliders, and a hardware switch for "fader-per-channel"/"submaster" modes.

Moving up to an Ion adds physical encoders and supports wings for up to 240 physical sliders.

 

It's worth having a chat with FACE about demos.

 

Hi guys, I end up with a zero 88 orb xf that meets all the requirements and seems very easy to use. With two touchscreen monitors looks like a complete solution (even not being the solution model) for any situation. Great job you guys at cooper controls !