Upgrading system

[UVAUDIO]

Hi all.

 

New to the forum.

 

Here is the larger setup I run:

 

x3 Chameleon 3700DP amps (1,200W @ 4ohm, 2,000W @ 2ohm)

x1 BSS Omnidrive 336

 

x2 martin WS218X (run in Mono currently)

x2 martin WT3 (ran in bi-amp mode)

 

GL2400-24 mixer, outboard etc etc

 

Anyway!

 

Looks like I have a fair bit of work coming up this summer and I need to upgrade really. I also find the WS218X feel underpowered when doing some of these gigs, probably because there only getting 2400W in total.

 

I need to upgrade the system by additional kit, but on a budget! Any ideas guys would be magic!

 

 

Manythanks

Ben

[Shez]

Hi Ben,

 

Welcome to the BR.

 

Could you be a little more specific about what you want these upgrades to achieve? More volume? Wider coverage? Higher quality? More channels?

What kind of events does the kit work on? The more details you can give on what your current setup is lacking compared to where you want to be, the more useful advice you'll get.

[UVAUDIO]

Hi Shez,

 

 

 

OK. I am getting more outside work this summer at small - med sized festivals and larger scale indoor gigs too from 800+ people.

 

 

 

I wish to achieve:

More Volume for these larger scale shows

 

It is also mainly rock bands and reggae I am working with.

[Shez]

For that kind of music and those sized audiences, the system as a whole looks a little underpowered to me. Are the tops loud enough or is it just the subs that are lacking? Have you considered hiring in a bigger rig when required?

Beefier amps for the subs are where I'd be looking to spend money with your current setup. On a budget for that application may be tricky though.

[UVAUDIO]

Hi Shez,

 

 

 

Yeah that was my thinking, anybody know of some high powered amp/amps going?

 

The tops to be fair are really efficient. I was looking though at finding some W8C's if anyone knows of any going?

 

 

My original thoughts for the system was x2 more subs WS218X, selling the WT3's and going with W8C's. CHanging the MONO subs to Stereo so I can feed more power out and run one amp per side for the subs.

 

Or even changing the subs over to horn based subs such as WSX....

[TonyMitchell]

For the capacities quoted (800+) and the music genres you are working with, put simply, you haven't got enough rig for the gig.

 

Additional subs & properly powering them - great idea.

 

A single pair of 65x40 mid top boxes alone (WT3) is unlikely to give you the coverage you need. Swapping them for a pair of slighly louder but narrower 55x30 W8Cs will worsen your dispersion problem. A pair of W8C per side would work.

[UVAUDIO]

For the capacities quoted (800+) and the music genres you are working with, put simply, you haven't got enough rig for the gig.

 

Additional subs & properly powering them - great idea.

 

A single pair of 65x40 mid top boxes alone (WT3) is unlikely to give you the coverage you need. Swapping them for a pair of slighly louder but narrower 55x30 W8Cs will worsen your dispersion problem. A pair of W8C per side would work.

 

 

Hi Tony,

 

 

OK so I am thking in the right direction! OK so I guess then does anyone here have x4 W8C + X2 WS218X for sale? ** laughs out loud **

 

What are peoples thoughts on the WSX horn loaded subs?

[ChrisBogg]

You stand a good chance of finding some WSX subs on the second hand market. or look at the S218 Blackline subs. same unit as the WS218 but with different drivers. they are a cheeper sub if your looking to swap 2 for 4 etc. you will often find that with a good set of mid hi boxes you will need more sub than 1 to 1 to balance the system. With sub it is all about moving air so 4 drivers will be considerably better than 2. (by 6db which is usually thought to me around twice the volume to your ears)

 

C

 

 

 

Hi Shez,

 

 

 

Yeah that was my thinking, anybody know of some high powered amp/amps going?

 

The tops to be fair are really efficient. I was looking though at finding some W8C's if anyone knows of any going?

 

 

My original thoughts for the system was x2 more subs WS218X, selling the WT3's and going with W8C's. CHanging the MONO subs to Stereo so I can feed more power out and run one amp per side for the subs.

 

Or even changing the subs over to horn based subs such as WSX....

 

 

 

[csg]

Naturally, your upgrade path will be subject to budget, however I would start with:

 

looking at sub placement - with limited power in this area, you will get more gain from the system if you can place your subs centrally and together, so they couple, removing the comb filtering and associated hot and cold spots as you walk across the audience area. Mono sub is the best way to go in virtually any situation, and the ear can not locate sub 120Hz frequencies in general, so there is no particular advantage in having stereo sub bass.

Naturally adding further subwoofers would also help.

 

Your amplifiers, whilst good sounding, are far from current state of the art, and not known for reliability either. If you don't mind heavy amps, then a careful second hand purchase of units such as crest p9001 or CA18, or crown macrotech 5000VZ may prove a good investment.

 

As for mid highs, the key for coverage of larger areas with smaller rigs is definitely placement again - but this time getting the speakers up to the right hight. For larger events, this will inevitably mean flying them - do you have the ability to do this?

 

as for your suggestion of WSX and W8c - both great units, but the WSX will only come into its own when used in numbers - if you can go with a central block of subs, 4 would be the starting number. If you have to go with LR stacks, fewer than 3 a side will be dissapointing. Horns need a large effective mouth to work well at low frequencies, hence the numbers of units needed. In the right numbers, they will produce more subjective "throw" then most reflex loaded systems, but the variables are many, and throw can cause as many problems as it solves ( i.e. off site noise nuisance). I would stick to the units you have already, and add to them with further units as required, but dont be tempted to mix them with WSX, this will open up a big phase/delay can of worms...

W8c are again good units, and these may make more sense. Again, you will need to get them up to the right hight, and being big boxes this is not easy without the proper kit. The MAN flyware used is also expensive. With a 55 deg. horizontal dispersion, you are also likely to need a minimum of 2 units a side, and thats if you only need the 30 deg. vertical coverage that will give you...

 

Dependant upon the number of larger shows you do a year, it might make more financial sense to talk to local suppliers who can sort you out with the right kit on a hire basis.....

[UVAUDIO]

Thanks for the info guys :)