a solution for a blue colour problem?

[S&L]

This is sort of related to my earlier post regarding operating temperature of filters. I have two sets of 4 short par 56 cans containing GE 300w 240v par lamps. for this weekend's show we replaced some of the filters with our own colour choices. the rig is for bar and small hall shows for rock and pop cover bands.

So anyway, the filter replacements were fine except for a couple of cans we coloured congo blue. the output was very weak compared to other cans and I am assuming that is because of the depth of the colour - i.e. the deeper the colour the less the intensity for the same size of lamp. so I am wondering if there is a way around this problem - a weaker colour that gives a blue light but allows more light past to give the equivalent intensity of other colours (orange/red/green etc)

any thoughts?

[themadhippy]

in dayz of old I was taught to double up on blue,however congo is pretty dark(.78% transparancy) if its a blue your wanting 079 is not to bad

[ladyjayne]

079 is a nice blue but for band work I prefer 119 (esp for back light) or 120. A more vibrant one still would be 071 but again that's quite a dark one.

Got a similar sized rig up ATM in a local pub for Xmas/New Year but doubled up on the ones with congo and use 500w bubbles as 300s are just too dim. (that's double the pars not double filters)

Never actually tried this with a 300w or 500w par56, only 1K 64's but one of my favorite effects using congo is removing a 5p sized piece from the center of the filter.

Looks best however with a dozen or more and plenty of haze!

[S&L]

079 is a nice blue but for band work I prefer 119 (esp for back light) or 120. A more vibrant one still would be 071 but again that's quite a dark one.

Got a similar sized rig up ATM in a local pub for Xmas/New Year but doubled up on the ones with congo and use 500w bubbles as 300s are just too dim. (that's double the pars not double filters)

Never actually tried this with a 300w or 500w par56, only 1K 64's but one of my favorite effects using congo is removing a 5p sized piece from the center of the filter.

Looks best however with a dozen or more and plenty of haze!

 

nice tip with the 5p thing but sticking with what we have and not wishing to overload. i.e. 2 par 56 rated at 300w and assuming 181 congo and 071 tokyo won't work well then would 119 work, i.e. not be excessively dim?

[ladyjayne]

119 will be a lot brighter but is nothing like 181 or 079. It all depends on what effect you are trying to achieve. My best advice would be to get a swatch book and decide your yourself which you prefer. What other gels have you got in the rig?

[dmxtothemax]

Sorry there is no easy way out !

 

Congo blue is a rich color,

 

But it also blocks 95% of the light.

 

 

Its the price you pay if you want deep colors.

 

Try using a 1000w par can (par 64).

[S&L]

effect I'm trying to achieve? a blue wash across the stage to work as a stage wash when the stage is empty or just about to start, a colour that will be hopefully striking in a sequence.

set up at the moment?

as I said earlier 2 sets of 4 par 56 cans, opposite sides of the stage, running as four channels as follows:

channel 1 - amber both sides, as wash for rear/drummer position/banner positions/use in sequence

channel 2 - one red, one green to use in sequence and for use as a wash when blended with channel 2

channel 3 - at the moment congo blue both sides but so poor as to be unworkable unless used with channel 2

3 and 2 light the main part of the stage

channel 4 - clear used as spots and flashes at front of stage/main singer positions.

we are running these with an old 4 channel controller for the moment - conversion to DMX will have to wait until the summer at the earliest.

using par 64 - not an option for any number of reasons. this rig has to be all things to all people, compact, fast to set and able to run from a single 13A plug.

 

we can and we will play around with settings, filters and such but with lighting being a new add-on venture and having not come across this and a few other issues I just wanted to get a more expert take on how to get a decent blue wash out of a pair of 300w par 56 cans.

[ImagineerTom]

Then this is a situation when a couple of cheep LED pars would be perfect; they're cheep to buy, you'll get a good blue out of them and they won't make any real dent on your power needs. They won't be any use during the show lighting as your "conventional" lights will over power them but for eye candy and pre-show washes you'll struggle to better them. Many models can be hard-switched to stay on a certain colour (so you won't need DMX control) and you can just leave them on all the time precisely because the rest of your rig will over power them during the show

[Jivemaster]

Unless you re going for blue discharge lamps and fittings which will be bright, blues are probably best from LEDs. PAR lamps make so little blue that any saturated blue filter blocks most of the lamps light. Some dichroics may give good blues with good transmission but they are rare and expensive.

[Don Allen]

181 Congo Blue transparency Y 0.8%

707 Ultimate Violet transpareny Y 2%

I use Ultimate Violet as my close match to Congo Blue as it has twice the intensity on stage.

You need to use HT for saturated gels.

[adam2]

One option that I used years with some success for deep blues was to use 220 volt lamps for deep blue.

 

If an incandescent lamp is run at a higher voltage than intended then it not only gives more light, but also gives light of a higher colour temperature that contains more blue.

I would estimate that the deep blue output is at least doubled and perhaps tripled by running a 220 volt lamp on a 240 volt supply.

The downside is of course a significantly reduced lamp life and greater expense of replacements.

[david.elsbury]

Wouldn't that also result in more heat therefore more gel changes?

[S&L]

ok now I'm getting it (finally!) - having looked at the information above and on Lee Filters web site - they key is the transmission percentage I assume? that being the case, there doesn't seem to be a way of reasonably using par 56 300w lamps with a blue colour. time for a rethink and I will take on board the suggestion re separate LED's or another stand alone solution

thanks folks.

 

edited to add that have just seen the 220v lamp solution above - worth investigating.

[adam2]

Wouldn't that also result in more heat therefore more gel changes?

 

Yes, but only slightly, a 220 volt lamp worked on 240 volts will indeed get hotter and burn out the colour filter more quickly, but the difference is not that great and might be a price worth paying for the improved blue output.

 

The O/P in this thread was primarily about the poor light from deep blue filters rather than about short filter life.

 

In the good old days of footlights in red, blue, amber and white, I remember 220 or even 200 volt lamps being used in order to improve the blue when filming in a theatre.

[david.elsbury]

Yes, but only slightly... {snipped}

Ah, gotcha. That's interesting to know :)

 

The O/P in this thread was primarily about the poor light from deep blue filters rather than about short filter life.

True, but given the poster's other topic about filter life also, figured it might be worth mentioning/asking. :)

 

This is sort of related to my earlier post regarding operating temperature of filters. {snipped}

any thoughts?