dissertation questionnaire only takes 5 mins

[stevelinus]

Hey guys it must be that time of the year when all those doing dissertations are posting up questionnaires. I'm not any different and if you can fill it out GREAT :-) its about employment in the lighting industry and are related qualifications beneficial in getting a job. should only take 5 mins and your input would be greatly appreciated. thanks steve.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/embeddedform?formkey=dEJkYnFpZUFVRHJsWHFPaXBlbHRDaFE6MQ

[Adam L F]

"If you are recruiting what skills would you look for in potential employees *" - As I'm not an employer, I don't feel as if it would be suitable for me to answer this question, would it be possible to make this a question I could leave out?

[stevelinus]

"If you are recruiting what skills would you look for in potential employees *" - As I'm not an employer, I don't feel as if it would be suitable for me to answer this question, would it be possible to make this a question I could leave out?

 

its not something I am aiming at people who employ people I am looking for opinions if you were in a situation where you were a potential employer looking at skills in somebody you are recruiting.

 

hope that makes sense

 

 

[lightsource]

Filled it in, but what a load of stupid questions.

 

I really wish universities would stop trying to train sound / lighting engineers.

[Dave C]

I really wish universities would stop trying to train sound / lighting engineers.

 

What, you mean by covering things like electronics, DSP programming, proper acoustics and electroacoustics, loudspeaker system and cabinet design? You know, the actual engineering part of sound engineering? Or related technologies like systems, wireless, RF and comms/networking?

 

If you don't think that a good proportion of the heavy stuff is University level, then maybe you haven't read 'Sound System Engineering' by Eugene Patronis and Don Davis, or maybe 'High Performance Loudspeakers' by Martin Colloms, or any of the good audio electronics and amplifier design books (Douglas Self, John Linsley Hood, Stan Gibilisco), or even Bob McCarthy's big green book (Sound Systems, Design and Optimisation).

 

Or maybe even trying to give students some knowledge, appreciation, and ability to think critically about the aesthetics of music/sound or the visual, perhaps with some cultural context for good measure?

 

 

I really wish people would realise that a University can educate a sound (or lighting) engineer.

 

 

Dave C.

[paulears]

Dave we know how it is. Some people, like you, understand and appreciate what goes on - BUT - every time somebody joins the forum and gives a questionnaire link - many of us cringe because of the content. I always wonder why somebody who really has an interest in what we do isn't already a member - bearing in mind many of our long term members joined when they were still at school. Somebody at uni, doesn't have to Google very far to find this forum - so my question is always why their first post is a questionnaire request? probably because the deadline is approaching and their idea for their dissertation is fading fast, and we're an easy source of data (which of course is very often so diverse as to be useless!)

 

Many of us have also worked with graduates from various university courses who simply don't know the basics - as in one I had with a sound design degree who didn't know speakons went in, and then TWISTED!

 

So many uni students get a hard time. Some react very badly to any negativity in their questions, let alone the answers!

 

Nobody, I think, has ever come back and posted a link to their completed tome - so we could see what they did with the research and the subject - they sign up, then never come back. I think the sheer quantity of requests just makes many people not bother any more - unless there's some detail in the request - which is really, really rare!

[Adam L F]

I feel like perhaps I should add onto the above few posts..

 

"Warning: Sweeping Generalisation"

[ramdram]

The odd thing that these nippers never actually twig...until they really think about it(?) is how the very first lighting bods "evolved", ** laughs out loud **! Goodness only knows what they really hope to gain from these surveys. Its all subjective and they could easily get misled...

 

(Plus some of BR readers may recall a similar survey on going green in the "theatre". It became rather obvious the person writing the questions had fairly rigid and intractable ideas on the subject...and got a tad impatient when her(?) survey was treated as it was...the worry being that there was only one view that mattered...and it wasn't ours.)

 

On the lx design issue, does it never occur to them and peers that the folk who led the way simply experimented with every variable they could and went from there? Some, who could, articulated their ideas onto the page so to speak...so that the "followers" can use that as a basis for their own work.

 

Of course if these nippers want to understand how the kit works then uni can supply that kind of training education. Doubtless they even go so far as to teach the basics of lighting effects on a stage/set/actor/whathaveyou.

 

BUT, if these nippers believe unis can instill a creative flair then they may be deluding themselves. We've had a few pre uni age nippers working at our venue and some of their work is excellent...in other words they simply have the innate creative skill, or eye, for this kind of work. On the other hand we have had some folk whose ideas on lighting design are so pedestrian you can't wait for the run to end.

 

Plus the use of computer "technology" is also evolving so rapidly that "even" the designers have no idea their tech could do more that they ever envisaged. Using an iPhone to control moving lights. Using an iPad to control a desk. Don't tell me poor old Jobs.S saw that coming. So what's to stop these embryonic LDs experimenting themselves?

 

IF these nippers want to get a job in their chosen career...LX design...then if they want to impress a future employer or possibly client then then really need to have a portfolio of "their" own work.

 

It is almost as if when asked questions at an interview they are going to trot out the answers and views gleaned from a survey.

[stevelinus]

I can see from looking at many other posts on this forum you all seem quite keen at shooting down somebody who is new / young or does not post as often as others fact of the matter is im actually 34 so not a youngster, worked in IT for 12 years and then decided to put my savings towards uni and go and get a degree and change careers to the production industry, if im honest the course is pants and the job I am currently working 5 days a week on top of doing my degree is my foot into the industry in a very big way working for one of the top 3 lighting companies in the UK, its certainly given me the chance to meet some amazingly talented people. From doing the course its really shown me that it means nothing and the majority of what I have learnt have been in the 5 years I have been running events and the last year I have been working for the large lighting company. not to mention the 2 years I have worked freelance as LD and Vidiot for a small music venue.

 

The thing that makes me very annoyed about all this is the fact my university have been useless at not only trying to help place students in the industry even if just for work experience but their firm view that the only way of getting a job in it is to get a degree. This I am fully aware is not the case and when the opportunity came to do a dissertation on anything I wanted I chose this as to not only show them they know ###### all but also its something I have learned the hard way and dont want others making that mistake. Looking back it would of been more beneficial to do what im doing by starting at the bottom and use the savings I spunked on a degree to support me during that time.

 

To add to this I am also dyslexic which again I have had no support for with this course and only found out once I had started uni so for the people who are having a pop at small grammatical errors in what I am doing im afraid I have heard it all before. As for the person who spent their time slagging off my questions instead of just answering them it just makes you look like a small minded idiot and not somebody who would have a good feeling they were helping me with this.

 

anyway if you have 5 minutes spare filling it out would be a big help as its my chance to give a final middle finger to those that told me I know nothing.

 

thanks for your time.

[Adam L F]

anyway if you have 5 minutes spare filling it out would be a big help as its my chance to give a final middle finger to those that told me I know nothing.

 

Happy to be of help. ;)

[paulears]

Sorry Steve - but your attitude is EXACTLY what gets up people's noses. In fact I can think of at least three recent really good, well structured questionnaires that had researched at a decent level the subject being discussed. In these cases, the people had a point, gave details about their expectations and existing knowledge and skills and then sought to see if their view was substantiated by external opinion, or if they'd misread how it is, and were wrong. I think many of the university lecturers and other Higher Education people on here cringe sometimes, and the non-educational people are also getting quite expert at sorting the wheat from the chaff.

 

Members how have been around for a while also know we have a number of regular contributors with very severe dyslexia, and nobody ever notices because they have developed proper system to check their posts before posting. We do from time to time have very lazy posters who don't care how they spell, and use the dyslexia card which infuriates those with the condition who do care.

 

This industry is very small - many of us get our work through word of mouth, and this is far better than a degree for getting work. That said, graduates who are good do get work, and most importantly, they get referrals from it and join the ranks of people properly working.

 

We're quite often accused of being negative and even rude - but if you analyse the posts where this happens, it is frequently a case of a new member wanting instant assistance without any form of dipping their toe in the water, or even reading the forum in many cases. From the long standing member perspective, their feeling of "oh no, not another" is very understandable. We do understand that to the new member, they're unaware of what happens, but some requests (and I'm not talking about this one here) are frankly pathetic and hardly worth asking to pass a GCSE at school. We are often horrified by the total misunderstanding of the industry, the way it works and the kinds of people working in it. Sometimes we are simply gobsmacked by the standard of question being posed. We're often 100% certain that their supervisor when they see it would rip it up and wring their hands in desperation, some really are that inept!

 

The percentage of good research topics is probably 20%, and that's perhaps generous!

 

The blue room is a cluster of people interested in a common subject. Some work professionally, others do it because they like it, and have 'proper' jobs that let them do it. Some are old, some young. Experience levels vary greatly. However - our negative aspect is simply patience. We sometimes just don't like the way some new members wish our forum to be. The mods do try to keep things at least civil, but we cannot make people be supportive and positive with new members. The new members have to take responsibility for their attitude when they join. Like any organisation, it takes time to settle in and get a feel for the style. Frankly, joining as a new member and criticising members isn't going to encourage these members to spend their time helping and this often gets forgotten!

 

What's the old computer saying? Garbage in = garbage out? Ask a good question and the answer will match. Ask a stupid one and why be surprised at the result?

[Robin D]

And in case anyone doubts Paul's right to comment, from another site:

Performing Arts and Music are now very popular study subjects, and Paul Johnson, as well as being a qualified teacher, has also been heavily involved with Edexcel, the examination board who run BTEC and A Level qualifications. He was involved with the development of the first A Level Music Technology qualification, ending up as Principal Examiner for the subject. He now works with BTEC qualifications as a unit writer and assessment associate, as a verifier in schools and colleges.

Despite being in the same county, while I have once spoken to Paul for advice, I have never met him and have no axe to grind. I do though have a great respect for his contributions here, and he is always among the first to try to help and guide those in education when they ask a question. Sadly if you take the time to stay here and 'listen' for a few weeks, you will see many who simply take offence when such 'guidance' is offered.

 

Lets turn the question on its head. Just why should busy people spend time trying to help those who refuse to listen to advice on how they could do things differently to help themselves?

[kerry davies]

On the side issue of dyslexia, Steve, the British Dyslexia Association and Dyslexia Action will help though from your posts I would hazard a guess it isn't too severe a case. BDA bought a voice recognition computer for one of my "little 'uns" when he got his First Class Honours in Lighting Design from Central.

 

If people seem averse to newcomers asking questions it might have something to do with the frequency of those halfway through a very expensive degree course asking whether it is worth it from people who do not work that way. In my idea of a dissertation one takes a position and then conducts pro and anti argument. Surveys simply give others opinions and the sort of survey you are using could better be split in two. One part on what recruiters look for aimed at employers and the other, what do students/academics think recruiters look for, aimed at students and/or academics.

 

Showing the results of each group to the other and taking their reactions to variance in points of view might be useful, otherwise it is just opinion. As with all matters of opinion there is a sliding scale I place on people's opinions, with mine at the top and everyone else's gradually falling away as my knowledge of and respect for them falls away. That's just human.

[grizzly]

I can see from looking at many other posts on this forum you all seem quite keen at shooting down somebody who is new / young or does not post as often as others

 

A total misread of the situation, right there.

[paulears]

I think we pretty much have come to a conclusion here - I'll close the topic as it does seem to be pretty cut and dried now.

Paul

mods