Wire mesh in parcans...

[mikienorth]

Don't know about a 10 degree unit but a zoom will have two lenses? Hence my comment about the rear lens catching any glass might apply?

 

After changing a few lens tubes (twice, we put the wrong backs on to confuse the production sparks first) today, and checking equipment purchased after this date, and still remaining unclear on a certain point, and straying away from the original question about parcans:

 

A 10 degree has, or at least none of these ones, no mesh to catch anything. Bear in mind the S4 has a glass reflector, glass lamp, and glass lens(es).

 

 

Yet again we need to be careful of that word 'legal'.

 

The only place that anything is written down is in EN 60598. Any luminaire placed on the market in the EU should now be CE marked and probably certified to EN 60598. The spec says that any luminaire with a lens, which would include PARs, should have a mesh to prevent anything bigger than a piece of glass 25mm across from falling out.

 

Every source 4 I have looked at today was marked CE. This included 19, 24, 10 and zoom. According to the quote above, as each contains a lens, they should have a mesh to prevent a peice of glass falling out, and the lens is apparently included as some of the glass that could fall out, not as a method of catching a shattered lamp, or in some cases, reflector.

Some did, but they were in the minority, and AFAIK, all were purchased after the CE regulation became enforceable, certainly no zooms had mesh.

 

Then from what I see at work, neither a S4 revolution, or VL2000 has a mesh, yet they must be CE marked as they are available in the EU. Likewise a MAC series fixture, or pretty much any ML I have seen.

 

I would say from this, that there is either a really really obvious way to properly mark your equipment for sale with a CE stamp without complying with this directive, or this is a really badly enforced rule, or a large section of our industry are blatantly flouting the law?

 

Which is it?

[Brian]

I need to expand on some of EN 60598, my original quote was intended to cover the original question of PARs, so...

The luminaire should be designed so that in the event of a lamp exploding, fragments 3mm big should not directly escape.

 

Open faced luminaires need either safety glass at least 3mm thick or a mesh which will stop 3mm glass particles.

 

Luminaires with a single lens need a safety mesh to stop 25mm fragments of glass.

 

Luminaires with more than one lens do not need a mesh.

 

It would also appear that units with a safety glass need a 12mm mesh.

 

There is also a load of stuff about testing units by running them and sprinkling them with cold water. If a lens breaks then that's OK as long as the glass doesn't fall out.

 

So, for a PAR housing, I'm fairly happy with the idea that it should have a 25mm mesh. The lamp could explode, any 3mm fragments are stopped by the PAR lens but if that then fails you need to stop 25mm fragments. However, if anyone decides that the whole PAR is a lamp and not a lamp with integral lens then you need a 3mm mesh because it's now an open fronted unit.

 

For a flood you need a 3mm mesh or a safety glass - it's an open-fronted unit.

 

For a moving light I don't think you need a mesh - in the event of a lamp exploding no bits bigger than 3mm are going to come out from the housing, any bits flying forwards are going to hit the UV filter/gobos/dichroics etc before they get to the front lens - it's effectively a multi-lens unit. In the event that the front lens cracks because it gets dripped on with cold water then as long as the bits are retained it's OK.

 

For a simple fixed beam angle profile with one lens I think you do need a 25mm safety mesh.

 

For a condensor or zoom profile with two lenses then I don't think you need a mesh as long as if the front lens breaks when tested the pieces are retained.

 

It's important to note that as I read it, if the front lens doesn't crack when tested with cold water then you don't need to consider the retention of any broken pieces if it did crack (if that makes sense).

 

An understanding of how CE marking is enforced might help...

 

It's the responsibility of local trading standards to enforce it along with all the other new regulations that central government has dumped on our local councils. Specialist knowledge is limited as is money as is time as is staff. As an example of a real CE prosecution...

 

Company A is your typical local computer shop; they buy in cases, motherboards etc and assemble computers to sell under their own brand. Each component comes with some CE marks so when assembled Company A puts a CE mark on the outer packaging. Company A has a competitor called Company B which makes a complaint to trading standards. Company A is prosecuted for incorrectly affixing CE marks to its products.

 

Some key points...

 

1. Enforcement is mostly after the event as a result of a complaint - there is little random monitoring.

 

2. Complaints are usually commercially motivated.

 

3. Knowing how to CE mark is a nightmare. Just because component parts have a CE mark DOES NOT mean the whole unit can have one without testing. I've just looked in a couple of motherboard manuals; both have CE marks with tests for EMC (radiated electrical interference). However, it's very unlikely that a motherboard will meet EMC standards without being in a metal case so how can a bare board have a CE mark? I have some samples of mains connectors which are CE marked for electrical safety and yet until they are in a box I can touch the terminals - how is that safe?

 

The whole CE system is a joke, the only people who seem to comply fully are the larger EU based manufacturers, there are thousands of imported products on sale, with CE marks, which do not meet standards. The original idea of CE was to help EU based manufacturers - now they are just snowed under a mountain of paperwork and standards.

 

 

It's important to remember that a CE marks says that the manufacturer/importer believes that their product complies with standards and, in effect, that they are prepared to prove that in court. As long as they can prove to the court that they took all reasonable steps there will not be a problem.

 

It's just the same as H&S legislation.

[Gareth A]

in my old venue I did have 8 Source 4 19` from batch 1999 and they all DID have wire mesh fronts. and in fact all the ones I have on tour with me at the moment come with a mesh fitted at the front of the nose. Some dont but thats because they have been picked up and the mesh sanpped and then removed but they do have them........

 

hope that doesnt throw any spanners in.

[mikienorth]

Thanks Brian, it all makes much more sense now, but it sounds like CE marking is not something we should care about, if enforcement is as erratic and as lax as you suggest.

I know I'm wrong with the above, it's just the way it sounds...

[Brian]

Thanks Brian, it all makes much more sense now, but it sounds like CE marking is not something we should care about, if enforcement is as erratic and as lax as you suggest.

I know I'm wrong with the above, it's just the way it sounds...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As someone who earns real money designing stuff, I have to deal with the nightmare that is CE all the time. Fortunately, or unfortunately maybe, my major client (UK based) takes such things seriously. It means things I design, and they make, all meet standards and are hopefully therefore 'safe'. It does however mean we are always having to compete with cheap imports or stuff made in peoples garage. It keeps us on ours toes but does get a bit disheartening when you see some of the rubbish we try to compete against.

 

There are plenty of people who believe that CE stands for 'Chinese Export'.

[Dave]

I'm fairly ignorant as to the mysteries of the CE mark, so can I just ask the situation with a few types of light fitting then:

 

Birdies

Low voltage downlighters

Open-face linear t/h floods

High-bay and low-bay industrial fittings

Low-energy downlighters

Mains downlighters (eyeball or regular)

Common-or-garden fluorescents without diffusers

Modular fluorescents (used in suspended ceilings) with louvres

Festoon strings

My desk light!

 

All these (can) have exposed bulbs, and are currently available.

 

Does the voltage make a difference?

For dichroics, does it matter if the bulb if open or closed face? The glass on a closed face dichroic isn't 3mm thick.

Is there a "sprinkle" test for fittings with exposed bubs?

If CE marking is such a joke, should it be taken into account when doing a risk assessment?

 

My own horror story with bulbs shattering was a while back. I was 30' up a ladder focussing a PAR 64 six-lamp bar. The bulb in the lantern adjacent to the one I was focussing exploded - I'd guess it was about a foot from my head :D Fortunately, I stayed on the ladder (I wouldn't be writing this if I hadn't), but I was rather shaken up and almost needed new undies. I suspect that PAR lamps can develop hairline cracks in their outer envelope as a result of transit vibrations, which then cause the bulb to shatter from thermal stress an indeterminate time after being powered up.

[Brian]

The easy way to decide what is what is to buy a copy of EN 60598.

 

It comes in a number of parts...

 

60598-1:2004 is the overall spec that everything must comply with, it costs £178

 

60598-2 then has about 25 subsections, each of which costs between £48 and £86.

 

for instance theatre lanterns are 60598-2-17, emergency lights are 60598-2-22 etc etc etc.

 

So for about £2,000 you can have the set :D

 

As users of equipment we shouldn't worry about CE marking. Our 'due diligence' will stop at making sure that anything we buy is CE marked and, if you really want to, that you file a copy of the Certificate of Conformity somewhere. The CofC must be provided by the manufacturer/importer though you might have to ask.

[ianl]

just had a delevery of new par lamps today and on the side of the box in big print it says

 

safety instructions, these lamps must only be used in lights with wire safety mesh

 

or something like that, it says what size mesh aswell

[s-p]

Is there anyway to fit mesh to old lanterns, such as Strand 743s? We had one the other day, had been on for about half an hour, and a lens broke suddenly, falling about 20m. Luckily no-one was below.

 

The lens had been inspected before the lantern was rigged, but these lenses are so old that is it better to replace all of them?

 

sp