colinnewton Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I'm looking for some advice and I know I'm going to get shouted at!!!I have a LeMaitre G100smoke machine for a small scale tour but need to produce haze... I know I shouldn't put haze fluid in a smoke machine but, how much damage will it do? Will a smoke machine make haze?Would it be possible to water down smoke fluid (with distilled water) to create a haze effect? Am I just looking for a solution that doesn't exist and should say no to haze or try and buy a cheap haze machine?Thank you for your advice in advance and sorry for my blatant ignorance but that's what the forum is for isn't it? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Many cheaper hazers are nothing more than a low-output smoke machine and a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Most hazers work in different ways with different fluids to smoke machines.There are some machines that CAN take either a haze of a fog juice, but you'd need to check your manual to check what your machine can do. That said, what you can do to create a pseudo haze from smoke machines is to run it at low output and disperse the smoke with a decent sized fan. It won't be the same as haze but will thin the smoke a bit and give a similar effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Cheap haze machines are basically smoke machines using more watery fluid, with a fan on the front end to disperse the effect. Watering down the fluid yourself can make the machine spit out hot fluid so it isn't a great idea for actual stage use. If a hazer is not available I have often used one of those big floor standing fans in front of a smoke machine, just pulse the smoke occasionally (or run on low output if the smoke machine can do it). You don't get as even a distribution of effect as you would with a hazer, but it's ok. edit: Ynot beat me to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GridGirl Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Watering down the fluid yourself can make the machine spit out hot fluid so it isn't a great idea for actual stage use. I've never found this - maybe different machines react differently though. I did find that it made the smoke disperse faster though - not necessarily thinner but it didn't hang around as long (which is why we did it!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigclive Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Watering down the fluid yourself can make the machine spit out hot fluid so it isn't a great idea for actual stage use. I've tended to find that it's the opposite way round. It tends to be the fluids with too much glycol that the lower power smoke machines spit out. You can dilute glycol fog fluids with distilled water to get a softer haze without the cloudiness of a smoke machine. Alternatively a fan in front of the machine drawing regular fog through its airflow will distribute it into the surroundings faster. A long time ago when I was doing glycerine (glycerol) fog fluid experiments I discovered that it only takes a few percent of glycol in water to create a haze. Do flush the machine through with full strength fluid before storage though, as the glycols act as a preservative in the fluid. Another easy way to haze a small area is to use a standard ultrasonic humidifier with some glycerine in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I've tended to find that it's the opposite way round. It tends to be the fluids with too much glycol that the lower power smoke machines spit out. Yup.Some idiot decided to put fog juice in our Jem 24/7 and it took us a while to figure why it was spitting fluid all over the shop as well as not producing a decent haze... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I write the firmware for the Jem machines so I do a lot of mucking about with different fluid densities and distilled water to avoid filling the place with smoke... I have observed spitting in various situations, I just thought it was worth mentioning. Anyway a fan with full-fat smoke fluid works better for haze than watered down fluid. As GridGirl says, diluted fluid disperses very rapidly. Good for "steam" effects though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigclive Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Now you've cast doubt into my mind and I may have to start experimenting again. I can say that the machines that spit the most are the cheapo's with a short heater path. Probably because blobs of fluid shoot through without hitting the vaporisation surfaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 As GridGirl says, diluted fluid disperses very rapidly. Good for "steam" effects though.Might be something to do with the fact that the more dilution you make, the closer it actually gets to BEING water, hence heating water = ...??? :D /logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigclive Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 The thing is... If you put just plain water in a smoke machine it comes out as a hot vapour with no fog effect and instantly disperses into the air. Add even a tiny amount of glycol and it suddenly becomes visible and lingers. The haze it generates does hang around for a good length of time, since it's the equivalent of putting a short squirt of full strength smoke fluid into the air. Well diluted smoke fluid is useful for visible jets of "steam" without fogging the place up too much. Like a CO2 jet, but with a lingering haze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 What clive said... real steam is actually invisible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerJonny Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 What clive said... real steam is actually invisible. Then what the heck comes out of my kettle? Genuine question, if steam is indeed invisible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timd Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Then what the heck comes out of my kettle? Genuine question, if steam is indeed invisible. Droplets of liquid water suspended in water vapour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerJonny Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Then what the heck comes out of my kettle? Genuine question, if steam is indeed invisible. Droplets of liquid water suspended in water vapour. Ah, that makes sense. In fact, I'm sure I knew that, and was just having a brain fart. Back on topic, as others have said I've had some success with a smoke machine on short burst through a large fan. I'd describe it as a haze-like effect rather than true haze though, and quite a lot of experimentation with burst timings was needed to get something resembling an even haze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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