Older Profiles

[rossmck]

I'm in the process of putting together a small multi-purpose venue on a budget (no, it's not the fringe but It feels like it) - I know we almost all use Source 4 profiles these days and they've become the defacto standard for a good reason but the budget isn't available for them. Anyone got any opinions on an alternative good (zoom) profile?

 

 

 

It seems like we're currently between CCT Sils (which I've never been a fan of), Strand Quartet Zooms (the rest of the rig is Quartet Fs) or Strand SLs (which can be picked up a fair bit cheaper used than S4s)

 

The only new option within budget is something like the Showtec Multi Profile, a lower-budget clone of the Source 4 - but again I've never used these and wasn't that impressed with the reflector on the Multi Par.

 

I'm leaning towards the Strand SLs (being the only one I've used before) but can get around twice as many Quartets for the same price - there must be a reason for that, but likewise having 8 not quite so great profiles might be better than having 4 better ones ?

 

Opinions are welcomed :)

[indyld]

Aside from the fact that SLs are pretty nasty at times, they are the best of your choices as the price suggests.

 

Quartet profiles are notoriously a PITA to maintain, taking even experienced users a good deal longer per unit to clean the lenses - even if they don't make a mess of dismantling them and end up with a pile of bits which is a possibility first time out.

 

If you already have Quartet Fs elsewhere, then the "look" of the Quartets is going to be a bit more seamless obviously. As you say, maybe you just need double the number of sources instead of a few brighter, crisper looking spots for the odd gobo. Depends what they'll be used for I guess.

 

Either way, spares and stuff for all kinds of Strand kit is only going to get harder to come by in my experience.

 

E2A: I really wouldn't bother "investing" in Sils these days and I would also avoid the Brio if any came up.

[rossmck]

Thanks Rob,

 

Yep Quartet Fs are bad enough to maintain (well, rewire) I can imagine dismantling the profiles would be tricky, and putting them back together worse ..

 

The look of the fixtures doesn't bother me too much (I'd have Source 4s if I could, or even the *axial* acclaims but finding any used is tricky - I've got 4 myself and for all people moan about them I quite like the selecon stuff)

 

Would avoid the Sil and Brio. The Sil had it's day right enough, the Brio reminds me of the T84... which had the output of a tired glow worm considering the wattage of the lamp!

[Paul J Need]

On my wish list for ETC for many years was for them to produce an 18-32 (edit: junior) zoom version of the Source 4 25-50, this would complete the "set" and probably knock the socks off any other sub kilowatt profile on the market but alas..........

 

Even though we're a dealer for Showtec I would not opt for the Multiprofile unit as spares are a pig to get hold od and we've stopped selling them for this reason. We've been on to our showtec rep about it and no sollution has ever been found.

 

You'de be better off IMHO getting the silhouette 30's serviced and back up to spec. than spending your hard earned dosh on the multipars. CCT in Nottingham still make the spares !! Silhouettes are heavy but I would still say the optics could be as good as the SL (especially on the shutter edges which bow and it's often impossible to get a straght edge on SLs)

 

I guess my hot list would be

-1- Source 4 Zoom

-2- Selecon Acclaim

-3- LDR

-4- CCT Minuette

-5- Strand

 

Happy hunting

[indyld]

Silhouettes are heavy but I would still say the optics could be as good as the SL (especially on the shutter edges which bow and it's often impossible to get a straght edge on SLs)

 

 

Indeed, especially at short distances, the SL shutters bow like anything and at the ends of the optical range seems to incorporate a lot of the reflector surface, making that size/edge unusable.

 

The Peak/Flat adjustment seems to be really a Flat/Flat and the lamp housings work themselves loose and need twotting with a stage brace to get them on again from the deck.

 

No wonder Strand went down the pan. The Cantata Fs and PCs were the last decent things they designed. Actually, if I didn't think you would have a hell of a job getting bits for them, I'd say how about some Preludes in good nick? If you could find them.

 

E2A: In "look" I meant light quality, rather than cosmetics. An SL and a Quartet light "look" significantly different for obvious reasons.

[alistermorton]

I'd say how about some Preludes in good nick? If you could find them.

 

Preludes and cantatas regularly come up on ebay - going rate appears to be about 50 quid for a cantata and anywhere from 40 to 80 for a prelude. Quartets, when they come up, seem to for about 40 quid too.

[rossmck]

You'de be better off IMHO getting the silhouette 30's serviced and back up to spec. than spending your hard earned dosh on the multipars. CCT in Nottingham still make the spares !! Silhouettes are heavy but I would still say the optics could be as good as the SL (especially on the shutter edges which bow and it's often impossible to get a straght edge on SLs)

 

 

 

We don't have any Sil's... if we did we'd use them but since I'm looking for used lights, preferably zooms, I don't really want to go down the sil line.

 

-1- Source 4 Zoom

-2- Selecon Acclaim

-3- LDR

-4- CCT Minuette

-5- Strand

 

 

I think our price range starts at #5 sadly ;) ... The LDRs are nice lanterns, as are the Acclaim Axials (don't like the standard Acclaim personally) but again, pricey :(

 

 

 

[J Pearce]

I have a pile of quartets at work and haven't any complaints about them. They do the job, they focus tight enough for theatre gobo effects, but might struggle at corporate logos, they're plenty bright enough in my 1k colour wash, 650 white wash rig.

I've been there 3 years and haven't had a huge issue maintaining the stock, bit more complex than a S4 but perfectly manageable with care and attention.

 

Better than Sils (big, heavy and not spectacularly bright) or preludes (which I also have at work, poorer focus, gets dirtier quicker, and duller).

 

If I was being picky the M gobo size is a bit of a pain when most people's stock is now B size for S4s et al.

[mac500]

Spare parts for SL's are a nightmare. There is a reason why people are selling them off!

[rossmck]

Taking the Quartet vs SL comparison, there's a big difference in output - Quartet 15/25 is 728 lux at 15º to 409 lux at 25º at a distance of 10m (81350cd-31970cd). The SL 15/32 is 1540 lux at 15º and 1220 lux at 32º at 10m (154000-122000cd)

 

That said it's probably not an issue for this particular installation, and Jon suggests they're fine in his 1k/650W rig, but the output of the SL is closer to that of a S4.

 

 

 

 

 

[david.elsbury]

Do SL's still have the issue with badly cracked reflectors over time?

[rossmck]

We found some Acclaim Axials :-)

 

Thanks for all the input and suggestions.

[Trunker]

I'm not sure why people are so negative about the Strand Brio lanterns. They were designed to replace the Harmony profile range and do just that. You get the same output from 600w as you would have from a 1000w. I think they have their place in low powered venues, i.e. schools etc. Obviously the Source 4 lanterns even the 575w flavour are much brighter, but I picked up 8 Brio's complete with clamps, bonds, frames and iris's for 200 pound (25 each). Better than the Quartet IMO, easier to maintain and brighter.....

[paulears]

I've found many old bits of kit can easily earn their keep be re-use, just because they are old/out of fashion/unsuitable for rental doesn't mean they can't throw some light where you need it. Found an old P.23, found a brand new T/1 lamp at the back of the store, hung it and it's been the 'ice-cream' spot for the last 5 years, switched on from a distance. Works great. I often read about quartets and how difficult they are to repair - I bought 16 Fresnels in 1995, and they get light use and none have required opening because they're rarely moved.

[gareth]

Just to add my voice to the discussion (possibly repeating some things that others have said, for which apologies ...) :

 

SLs have their faults - the cracking reflectors as previously mentioned (although it doesn't usually affect the output quality), but watch also for discolouration of the dichroic glass - we have several which are going a particularly interesting shade of pink or green as they get older. Burnt lamp bases and wiring issues are also major problems, as taking the lamp burner apart to rewire or replace lamp holders is a major ball-ache if the screws have seized (which they almost certainly have). Having said all that, though, if the price is right and they've been well looked after, they could be a decent second-hand buy - you certainly get a lot more out of an SL than you would out of a Quartet. But availability of spares is a major problem - if you're buying a quantity, factor in some redundancy, don't expect to put them all into service - keep a proportion aside to cannibalise for spares.

 

Sils are big, heavy and inefficient. If they've been well cared for, however, they can still be a decent second-hand bet if the asking price is sufficiently low. They really do have to have been loved and cherished, though - most examples have had a hard life, and are showing it.

 

Quartets are OK, but they're budget lanterns so don't expect anything other than budget performance from them. Lightweight, cheap, reasonable (but not spectacular) optics, a pain to maintain, a gate that doesn't rotate, a comparitively uncommon gobo size - you get what you pay for. If you're on a shoestring budget, you could do worse as a second-hand buy.