side chain music drop

[pete10uk]

Could someone give me a pointer on using a compressor with side chain to lower the volume of BG music upon the mic being used. I thought it would be a simple thing but an hour labor can't get the thing working, now my brain is fried.

 

Cheers

[mackerr]

Could someone give me a pointer on using a compressor with side chain to lower the volume of BG music upon the mic being used. I thought it would be a simple thing but an hour labor can't get the thing working, now my brain is fried.

 

Cheers

 

To give you a complete answer we need to know what console you are using, but the simple answer is the direct out of the mic channel goes to the sidechain in of the compressor, and the threshold and ratio are set so that when the mic is used the comp, which is inserted on the BG playback input channel(s) lowers the gain enough to duck it under the mic.

 

Mac

[MarkPAman]

It may help if you tell us the model of compressor, and possibly desk, that you are using.

 

In the mean time, try this:

 

• 
   
  
• Send BGM into & out of the compressor in the normal way.
  
• Use an Aux out from the desk to feed the input part of the side-chain. This may need a "special" lead.
  
• Set attack very fast & release very slow.
  
• Set ratio quite high to start with.
  
• Adjust the aux level on the desk & the threshold on the compressor so that it compresses when you talk but not otherwise.
  
• Finally, change the ratio so that you get the right amount of reduction.
  

[pete10uk]

It may help if you tell us the model of compressor, and possibly desk, that you are using.

 

In the mean time, try this:

 

• 
   
  
• Send BGM into & out of the compressor in the normal way.
  
• Use an Aux out from the desk to feed the input part of the side-chain. This may need a "special" lead.
  
• Set attack very fast & release very slow.
  
• Set ratio quite high to start with.
  
• Adjust the aux level on the desk & the threshold on the compressor so that it compresses when you talk but not otherwise.
  
• Finally, change the ratio so that you get the right amount of reduction.
  

 

Sorry, should have been more specific, I'm good on the compressor settings, compressor is a cheap behringer 2600 or something, I just want it for ducking the music. I think the lack of direct out on the desk has just sent me in to a spin, I presumed (possibly quite wrongly) that the side chain could be used as an insert to the desk, but the return to the desk isn't working.

[MarkPAman]

Ok

 

You can either use an Aux to feed the side-chain as I said, or use a sniffer cable* to take a signal from the insert of your mic channel without interrupting it.

 

*TRS jack at desk end with tip & ring shorted. This gives you an unbalanced signal to send into the comp.

[paulears]

You supply the audio from the mic at line level to the side chain of the compressor, and as the side chain level increases the output ducks - so the compressor output goes to another channel on the desk, talk into the mic and the aux output on the desk looks after the varying level of music. You've just got the connection process a bit mixed up - you could put the compressor in and out onto the music channel insert point - that would be fine, but you still need to feed it line level mic audio to make the ducking work.

[Oldradiohand]

If the background music is picked up acoustically on the mic you won't get rid of it with a compressor unless the speech is quite a bit louder than the background. Otherwise as paulears says. What desk are you using? I'd normally use an aux to feed the sidechain and route the music through a group with the compressor in the group insert. Set the compressor so it doesn't operate on the music and set the sidechain for the desired amount of ducking. Fast attack and release sounds best to my ears. Not familiar with the Behringer unit but make sure if it's in a stereo group that the compressors are linked.

[peza2010]

If the background music is picked up acoustically on the mic you won't get rid of it with a compressor unless the speech is quite a bit louder than the background. Otherwise as paulears says. What desk are you using? I'd normally use an aux to feed the sidechain and route the music through a group with the compressor in the group insert. Set the compressor so it doesn't operate on the music and set the sidechain for the desired amount of ducking. Fast attack and release sounds best to my ears. Not familiar with the Behringer unit but make sure if it's in a stereo group that the compressors are linked.

 

im either misunderstanding the question. or this is not what the op is trying to achieve.

to me it seems he wants the music volume to duck, when the mic is being used... think dj mixer type talk over...

 

or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[mackerr]

Not familiar with the Behringer unit but make sure if it's in a stereo group that the compressors are linked.

 

It won't matter since the sensing is on the sidechain and it will be mono.

 

Mac

[Oldradiohand]

The OP hasn't made it completely clear if the "BG music" is acoustic background or mixed in - I was covering both bases.

 

Not sure about this compressor but I've used ones which mix the sidechain input in - hence there is a chance of the music operating the compressor causing image wander, hence the linking.

[pete10uk]

Ok I'll start from the beginning to avoid any confusion, I think it's quite a simple and run of the mill requirement I'm trying to acheive but I may be wrong as I've struggled to find much info into this even after quite a bit of googling.

 

I run the sound for quite a few outdoor events, the organiser likes to walk around with a hand mic in his pocket and speak speradically, I then have to manually duck the bgm, it's never quick enough nor do I know when he's done. I have a small zone mixer with this feature built in but it's not that great as you can't set attack and relese times nor the sensitivity to the mic.

 

What I'm after is a unit to do this for me with all the adjustability to make it work the way that sounds best, I did a bit of googling and thought that a comp with side chain was what I needed but if not please point me in the right direction.

 

I has actually envisaged a unit to loop both the mic and a twin phono stereo source loop through to insert pre mixer but couldn't find one, so purchased the beringer comp with side chain, as non of my existing comps have a chain.

 

I have a Yamaha mg24 fx desk the mic channels don't have direct out and the music source is on a stereo channel without an IO.

 

I originally sent the signal to the comp side chain via the desks IO, thinking it was simply a loop through but it appears not, the comp manual offers no advise as to the signal path of the side chain, I can get it to activate the comp but it dosent loop the signal back to the desk.

 

The bgm is looped via a group then through a IO through the comp.

 

I have tried routing the mic pre mixer straight through one side of the comp then linking one side chain to the other, this works to a point but is no better than my zone mixer, this could be as suggested down to mic level not line level. When I say it works I mean the sensativity to the mic is not adustable enough to make it a usable set up

 

Any advice is greatly received.

 

PS. The comp can go back if it isn't the correct kit, I'm not a great fan of beringer kit but it was cheap.

[mackerr]

Ok I'll start from the beginning to avoid any confusion, I think it's quite a simple and run of the mill requirement I'm trying to acheive but I may be wrong as I've struggled to find much info into this even after quite a bit of googling.

 

I run the sound for quite a few outdoor events, the organiser likes to walk around with a hand mic in his pocket and speak speradically, I then have to manually duck the bgm, it's never quick enough nor do I know when he's done. I have a small zone mixer with this feature built in but it's not that great as you can't set attack and relese times nor the sensitivity to the mic.

 

What I'm after is a unit to do this for me with all the adjustability to make it work the way that sounds best, I did a bit of googling and thought that a comp with side chain was what I needed but if not please point me in the right direction.

 

I has actually envisaged a unit to loop both the mic and a twin phono stereo source loop through to insert pre mixer but couldn't find one, so purchased the beringer comp with side chain, as non of my existing comps have a chain.

 

I have a Yamaha mg24 fx desk the mic channels don't have direct out and the music source is on a stereo channel without an IO.

 

I originally sent the signal to the comp side chain via the desks IO, thinking it was simply a loop through but it appears not, the comp manual offers no advise as to the signal path of the side chain, I can get it to activate the comp but it dosent loop the signal back to the desk.

 

The bgm is looped via a group then through a IO through the comp.

 

I have tried routing the mic pre mixer straight through one side of the comp then linking one side chain to the other, this works to a point but is no better than my zone mixer, this could be as suggested down to mic level not line level. When I say it works I mean the sensativity to the mic is not adustable enough to make it a usable set up

 

Any advice is greatly received.

 

PS. The comp can go back if it isn't the correct kit, I'm not a great fan of beringer kit but it was cheap.

 

It is the correct kit, it just needs to be set up correctly. The sidechain input only goes to the level sensing circuitry of the comp, it does not go to the audio output. The line level signal from the mic could either be from a direct out from the mic channel, or an aux send that has only the mic in it (or any other signal you want to activate the ducking). The audio from the BGM goes through the audio I/O of the comp. This can be an insert on the mixer, or it could be a signal from the BGM player before its console input. When the mic is used the comp will sense audio above its threashold and will reduce the level of the BGM. As Mark said earlier the attack should be fast and the release fairly slow so the music fades up nicely after the announcement. The ratio should be set fairly high, and the threshold set so that the send from the mic provides enough signal to dump the BGM to a low enough level.

 

Mac

[pete10uk]

Thanks. I have another go in the morning. The comp has sc send and sc return, when I connect to the IO on the mic channel if I connect the desk send to the comp return and vis versa, I loose the mic signal from the desk. Am I missing somthing.

[Oldradiohand]

OK, I've looked at the manuals, this should work.

 

 

Use 2 TRS to M&F XLR insert leads, plug group insert 1 & 2 to compressor 1 & 2 in/out. Route the music through group 1. Take the limiter and gate out of circuit, press the SCEXT button in. This should effectively make the threshold switch an input control. Check music goes through the compressor. Set a fast attack and fastish recovery time, high ratio and input/output level so the audio levels with the compressor in and out are similar.

 

Route the mic to output or group 3/4 NOT 1&2. Send the mic post fade to an aux. Plug the aux out to the sidechain in. The aux level should control the amount of ducking. It doesn't look like you can have gentle compression and ducking on this device. To compress the mic you'll need another compressor.

 

There is, of course, the quick and dirty solution. Put the complim in the output inserts, set it to hard limit, set the music level so it hardly operates and then ram so much mic level into it that the music will pump under the voice. It won't sound nice......

[mackerr]

Put the complim in the output inserts, set it to hard limit, set the music level so it hardly operates and then ram so much mic level into it that the music will pump under the voice. It won't sound nice......

 

If the comp is on the outputs it will compress the mic signal as well. It should be on the BGM input channel insert, or between the music player and the console input.

 

Mac