Simon Lewis Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I'm all for the Petzl harness - comfort, ease of use etc. are excellent selling points. However, if we followed this 'can't put a price on safety' line, we wouldn't accept the cheapest hard hat, the budget steel toecap boot or lowest cost safety glasses? To some extent there has to be consideration of fitness for purpose, and I suspect that low cost harnesses used in boom lifts would be OK whereas our rigging applications (which include fall arrest) might not. It's down to the risk assessment and correct selection of PPE for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trussmonkey Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 generally in life you get what you pay for... and if my life depends on it you can bet your bottom dollar im going to get the best. im biased anyway always been a petzl fan. if we are talking fit for purpose I agree with you Simon. if your only in a cherry picker and thats all you do then a basic Fall arrest harness will do but if you are rigging points then obviously no. if you are doing all of these then you need a harness that will do them all and not 2 different harnesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.Colwill Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I've never had to use this kind of harness, but as a rock climber I have dealt with similar issues when buying a sit harness. Mines a mid-range; mid-price one. There are cheap harnesses but I actually bought mine based on its comfort and that it used a specific buckle, small point to pick a harness but it’s all about the user comfort and ease of use. The cheap ones do the job, otherwise why would climbing centres use them as their hire and teaching gear? They can be bleeding uncomfortable (with straps in dodgy places) and they might not stand up to -20degrees that the ice climbing harness will, or have a million loops for the massive rack you're carrying, but they will save your life. I see these harnesses in a similar light. The cheap ones will work, otherwise, why do they get sold? They'll save your life, admittedly you might be dropping a brick at the time but they'll work. That said, the expensive ones will probably be more comfortable and be more user friendly, and you may feel safer. (And yes Petzl is a big brand, like buying Wranglers jeans over the supermarket special £6 jeans.) If it does the job you want it for, and you'd be happy in it (physically and mentally) then I don't see anything wrong with it. If not, get something better. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_s Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I'd be quite happy as a lampy to use a cheap harness which conforms to all of the relevant standards and is designed for fall arrest, for fall arrest. I'm fairly sure that it wouldn't be particularly comfortable to wear for long periods or to hang around in for anything longer than a few minutes, but as neither a rigger nor a rope access worker, that's not an issue. For the odd bit of focusing or what have you, the comfort aspect is mostly irrelevant. Whether I would turn up on-site with one is a different matter though. Issues such as professional image come into play, and I wouldn't personally turn up to a gig with a £30 Screwfix special no matter how much I actually trust it to do its job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I think the confusion here is that people are possibly confusing work positioning and fall arrest harness, with straight fall arrest harness. They are two different types of harness requirements - that can be found in one harness. If provided with a £15 Fall Arrest harness, that meets the relevant standards, passed a visual inspection, and was for the purpose of fall arrest in a MEWP or roof, then I'd wear it. That's assuming I'd left my Petzl Navaho Complet at home so wasn't able to wear that. I have the Petzl Navaho because I wanted a comfortable harness that would enable me to undertake work positioning and fall arrest purposes, and enable a days work to be done without it feeling horrible. And for that I'm willing to pay a little more than for a simple painters fall arrest harness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb304 Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 One issue which I'm surprised hasn't come up yet is trustworthiness of the supplier, given the initial link given. If it was only going to be occasional use then yes I would trust a cheaper harness, if it's one I was wearing for hours a day then I'd pay more to get a comfier one. One thing I personally wouldn't consider is buying something like a safety harness on ebay. Yes, on ebay there are things like reputation which can guide you on trustworthiness they aren't fool proof. So how do you know that a harness you buy of ebay hasn't been made on the cheap, or been used before, or just be a fake. I'm not a rigger (and pretty much only do amdram) so I may have this wrong but doesn't all equipment need to have a traceable history and inspection record. If so I can't see the first line of "purchased on ebay previous history unknown" going down too well. I've used ebay to buy stuff before and it has usually been fine, but when it comes to something that I might have to rely on to save my life I would rather go to a reputable company than chance a random seller on ebay even if it costs more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Actually, I don't mind using a cheap narrow strapped harness for work positioning, but I would not want to fall in one.... I;d like something a little more padded and snug fitting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I'm not a rigger (and pretty much only do amdram) so I may have this wrong but doesn't all equipment need to have a traceable history and inspection record. If so I can't see the first line of "purchased on ebay previous history unknown" going down too well. Whilst you are mostly correct, the forum post was not so much about buying used harnesses on eBay as buying new harnesses from eBay - many traders use eBay simply as a cheap and convenient shop front. As well as having a paper record of it's inspections, it's just a fact that you need to KNOW it's history. How do you know that the harness hasn't been involved in a fall? Falling a long way in a safety harness will put a lot of strain on it, but the damage may not be visible to the naked eye. A harness you get on eBay could look completely innocent but could be hiding 2 or 3 falls by a user who finds it OK to re-use a harness after each fall. It is really not advisable to find out the hard way that a harness has lost it's integrity. It will likely involve a lot of pain. So yes, ultimately second harnesses are a no go. But buying a new harness on eBay is a different scenario. But like I said before, I would still exercise a lot of caution, as whilst it may claim to be EN-standard compliant, whether it is or not is different. Many of the goods sold on eBay are inferior far eastern copies of the genuine article and sometimes even the seller is the one being lied to and is only innocently passing on the information he's been given. If you buy a harness, it doesn't need to be a big branded thing like Petzl or Sala or whatever, but you should buy it from a reputable dealer so you can be sure it came through the proper channels and can be traced back if there is an issue. (Traceability is important, since if they find a manufacturing fault in your harness, it may prove grounds to recall a batch, which could ultimately save the lives of other users). The lifespan of harnesses is 5 years, that's £40/year on a Petzl Navaho. It's really not a major expense if you're serious about what you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trussmonkey Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Petzl may be a big brand and expensive but how have they got to be a big brand ..... by selling quality gear that works and is fit for purpose (what ever that may be). When I started I used to wear a sport sit harness. it was light but bloody uncomfortable. As Pete says I too would use a £15 one if that was all there was and id left mine at home. I used to carry a light weight one (for FA only) if I 100% new that was all I would need it to do.I dont carry that one any more as the more expensive harness that will allow you to do multiple tasks is far better to use if there is a small chance you might need to be in a position of anything more than FA (for example). The issue of rescue also comes into play. With a more complex harness you get more options to assist in a rescue than you get with a basic one. if I were to take a fall I know which one I would rather be hanging in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I still believe that a 17 year old school student should be asking many questions before "which harness". Such as what need is there, what training is required before I can wear it, what else can be used, how do I avoid the need for harness. The harness quoted abides by EN standards and, though not one I would buy were I a rigger, does the job. I am not a rigger so have a cheapo I have used for work restraint in an all-terrain MEWP once in ten years. It is in a little plastic box at the bottom of my kit pile. Until this topic I had not thought about it for years. Few people in this business really need full, professional standard harness protection and I would expect those few to spend what it takes. Avoiding the necessity to buy one is the first step in safety at work. Inappropriate use of a harness, such as up an aluminium tower or where there is no rescue plan in place, is worse than not having one at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigclive Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 The reason Petzl are so prominent in the entertainment industry is because of the number of mountain climbers who ended up in rigging so they could get paid for dangling in their harness. That said, if I was ever in a position where I needed a sit-in harness with work positioning facilities I'd automatically choose Petzl because they do seem to have responded to the entertainment industry use of their climbing gear by making stuff dedicated to rigging. I guess there are other options, but it would all come down to support and comfort. Keep in mind that site style fall arrest and restraint harnesses are most definitely NOT designed to be suspended in for any period of time greater than a swift rescue. Also keep in mind that for cherrypicker work you should really use a restraining lanyard and not the fall arrest type, since rescue could be complex if you fell out the cage and it deployed. The point of the harness in a cherrypicker is to keep you in the cage in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I'd automatically choose Petzl because they do seem to have responded to the entertainment industry use of their climbing gear by making stuff dedicated to rigging. Such as what? I can't think of anything, their industrial range is generally geared towards rope access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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