Interesting LED - white with CMY

[paulears]

I'm waiting for some Chinese kit to arrive, but came across this - which has some interesting possibilities. No idea of the price - I've not enquired, but it seems to be a plastic bodied S4 with additions.

link to the full details

[rossmck]

Sort of a low budget 'seachanger' clone but with an LED back end ... looks interesting (ugly but interesting) would be curious to see what the output was like.

 

I must admit the Source Four LED is the first LED profile I've been particularly impressed with, the colour mixing is fantastic (but obviously it comes at a price) - not sure subtractive mixing and a (very cool) white source are the way to go but it'll be a while before the chinese products achieve the same colour mixing as ETC I would expect.

 

(as an aside I'm very surprised there's no chinese clone of the x.7 mixing system, or something a little more than just RGB or RGBWA)

 

 

[gordontech]

I like it. If its priced right it wcould be a great option for small scale rental companies to start competing with the big boys. I don't like the "pearl expert" this company seems to do. Slander if ever I heard one!

 

 

The S4 LED is great, they have started to put effort in to design and it will pay off.

[niclights]

Slander if ever I heard one!

That's one word for it. Personally I wouldn't support this company or many of the others in that region.

 

Apologies for the off-topic.

[gordontech]

I don't mind them making/designing their own varients of existing stuff, its what some of the best do. But this is just a blaintant copy and nothing else.

[paulears]

Well it's a blatant copy of a copied design. The S4 range have been copied pretty closely over the years and Thomann have both genuine and 'copy' products in their portfolio. I've got some 'S4 zooms' look-alikes on the way for a project, so will be able to comment on them when they come, before I use them. The Dortron company (which is also often called Dortron-Showtec) only sell direct with very large minimum order quantities, although the small firms on alibaba will do more sensible quantities. Once you order, the emails then come from the parent company - very odd.

 

 

Although we have strong views on IP and counterfeiting in general here - the Chinese have a different viewpoint. I too feel that when products are made that pretend to be something they aren't, then it's wrong for them to be sold here - conning people, however, the Eurolite look-alikes are not pretending to be ETCs, although they look very similar. The plastic housings for these CMY fixtures didn't need to look like ETC - some design features make little sense on a cold fixture - but they like the design, so see no problem with mimicking it.

 

I guess we'll have lots of different views on this - but to some end users, the only important issue is spec and price.

[timsabre]

I think the copying comment was directed towards their Pearl Expert copy, not the LED light.

[rossmck]

I think the copying comment was directed towards their Pearl Expert copy, not the LED light.

Yes Avolites, quite rightly, take a rather dim view of these (and the Stone Expert I've seen from a few)

 

 

I'm of mixed opinions about the 'clone' lighting and movers - where it is a blatant copy (like some of the Sharpys we see which have "SHARPY" printed on the side) it's counterfeit plain and simple, however there's plenty of very similar 189W beam lights now which Clay Paky claim violate various patents - but the Chinese do take a very different view on intellectual property as has been described above and I'm somewhat less opposed to original designs that achieve the same results, as these can bring some fairly impressive effects (at the cost of poorer build quality) within range of smaller productions.

 

When it comes to the 'clone' ETC products - I've used some of the Showtec Multi-Pars and they're not bad for throwing light on a stage but the beam is nowhere near as even as the S4 Pars (this is likely due to the aluminium reflector at a guess) and the build quality is clearly nowhere like them, then again they're a fraction of the price and I can see why they've become popular with Amdram groups etc. That said I'll still spec and use the genuine Source 4 Par where I can.

 

I've never used one of the S4 Zoom look-alikes so I'd be curious to know how you get on with them - any chance of a side / by side comparison showing the beam / gobo projection etc ?

[paulears]

I've not got an original ETC Source 4 Zoom to compare it with, but I'd be happy to do some detailed pictures and some of how they deal with gobos - or I could always loan one to somebody who does have the ETC zoom for a proper comparison.

 

I deleted it the other day, but one of the firms I get info from had a very complex, 4 screen lighting control. Didn't look like anything I recognised? If I get it again, I'll post the link.

[paulears]

The zooms have arrived and while there are some similarities, there are some quite big differences from the ETC. Obvious things first - when correctly assembled, the zoom panel is on the left, not the right where ETC have it. The lamp end is not the same - it's more like a moving head type. Two knurled knobs let the back end come off, and the lamp base has three screws that can be used to orient the lamp on the central axis - and by adjustment of all of them, alter the lamp position forwards and back. Wiring is what appears to be a black fibreglass sheath, with similar insulated cores - a yellow/green earth and two white cores leading to the lamp base. Shutters are much softer metal than the ETC and can be bent quite easily. The iris/fx slot is covered by a slide flap, but first problem is the gob slot. It's 95mm wide, but the supplied gobo holder is 98mm wide - so won't fit! Second problem was that all the units were misaligned - zoom control being nearly at the bottom. On the ETC there is a knob that when loosened allows the lamp house to spin. As delivered there is no knob, just tow screws top and bottom that are fully 'in'. Unscrewing these too a lot of effort and they were quite long, and slightly bent. Removing them allowed the lens tube to be removed. The casting has the usual slot that when a thread is engaged allows it to spin. They have all been assembled with the lens tube pushed in too far and the screws forced to eat into the aluminium. Removing them and then using them as they are intended leaves them sticking out by about 10mm. I've just tightened them up, as I doubt I'll need to rotate the tube very often. The cleaning flap has two knobs to open it - not the usual half turn twist lock.

 

I paid just under £200 per unit.

 

I've taken some pics, but I'll stick them up as links rather than images to save space here as they're a bit big.

end of lens tube

lens tube flap detail

long screws

rear end

reflector detail 1

reflector detail 2

screws too long

zoom and focus detail

[gordontech]

BUT paul... Do they look good live?

 

 

 

 

 

G

[paulears]

Oddly - yes they do. Sticking the wrong type of gobo holder in reveals really sharp edges, and in centre no colour fringing and at the edges on very small amounts - far better than the other profiles I have. With shutters out the fringing on the edge of the circle is evident at certain focus points, but not much different to others I have. They're in the van at the moment, but if I get a chance tomorrow, I'll hang some and see if I get time for some pictures.

[david.elsbury]

Would be interested to hear what "real-world" output is, compared to other lamps.

I've seen good things from DORTRON branded LED cans.

 

David

[gordontech]

That would be great cheers, it would be good to see. Im always up for an LED investment if it will make a few people look twice.

[paulears]

Hang on - I've just realised I've really confused this topic with off-topicness. I started the topic with the link to the LED fixture I'd come across while waiting for other Chinese kit to arrive. I didn't mention the other kit was NOT LED. I then made it worse by mentioning they'd arrived and my comments related to the design similarities and differences, but I think some people didn't look at the pics so assumed we were talking LED source - these zooms are 750W HPL types. It's my fault for mixing LED comments with non-LED comments so I'm sorry for the confusion. I'll have a go later and see if I can split the topic somehow, but it will be difficult. Sorry about this. Paul